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Post Info TOPIC: decorative concrete,by come on


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decorative concrete,by come on


hey come on,i think it would be awsom if you could give us a start to finish on one of your floor jobs.im not trying to advertize for you,so no one take this request the wrong way please.i think it would be a cool way for all us members to see the process takeing place first hand.i know i would like to see it .geezer69biggrin

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Yup! Sure thing Geezer. I'll round up a few pics and do that. How about an acid stain job? Something like that interest you?...or were you thinking something else?

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acid stain would be cool.id like to see the change from plain concrete to something nice.anything really.im looking foward to it .geezer69

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Come On wrote:

Yup! Sure thing Geezer. I'll round up a few pics and do that. How about an acid stain job? Something like that interest you?...or were you thinking something else?



 ACID STAIN  would be just the ticket,, cause i am about ready to start doing my new slab,, I still need to get the floor sander and get the other part sanded like you suggested,
I think where I screwed up on the other was by not nutrilizing the stain and cleaning it real good,,

I would like to see how you get the varagated multi color effect


-- Edited by Bad Rat at 02:48, 2008-08-24

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Just the same as anything you all do preparation is the key. If it's bare concrete, all the better...but if any paint, sealer or other stuff like that is present...it gotta go. Chemical strippers are available everywhere and even for us, it's a trial and error deal. You never know what's gonna work with whatever is there...we don't usually have the luxery of knowing what's been put on a surface before we get to it. At least half of the time we end up grinding the surface to remove these other products.
So, let's say that our surface is bare...if it's indoors we use a rotary floor machine with the most agressive pad (usually black) and some degreaser. Then we go over it in every direction about a half dozen times with clear water. If we're outdoors we use a wash deck attachment with our pressure washer with the same kind of method. The pressure washer needs to be about 4000 psi.
If the slab has been tightly power trowelled the black pad usually opens the pores enough for our stain to get a bite...if that's the situation we'll use it outdoors too.
Can't stress enough how important the washing is...it'll make or break ya. The pic is the wash deck I spoke of. That concrete looked clean when we got there, but you can see the difference from just one pass. My son made probably a dozen passes before it was ready to stain.
That's the first point to know....cleaning. Stay tuned.

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 I.m all ears <:)

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cool come on.ill be lookin for the next one.thanks for takeing the time to give us a demo.geezer69

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The next step is to actually apply the stain. "Acid stain", also called reactive stain will provide different effects, shades and colors to different slabs. This is because of the chemical reaction that takes place during the process. This is also why a test area is so important...in a small space colors should be tested to insure you get what you're going for. The brand I use is very concentrated and testing different dilutions (with regular water) sometimes is necessary to achieve the color we want. The stain can be applied on wet or dry surfaces, but not if there is any puddling present or if it is going to rain.
To achieve the mottled and verigated effect the stain needs to be sprayed. Acid eats metal so use a plastic sprayer with Viton seals. We use the pump-up ones found commonly in garden centers. Be sure to mask anything that not getting stained 'cause this stuff is very difficult to get off. Spray with an even fan pattern with circular and random motion. Have a helper brush the stain in with a stiff plastic broom using a scrubbing motion. This avoids lines that can take away from your job. Covering the surface with plastic sheeting can enhance this effect. Leave the stain reacting for a minimum of 4 hours.

Gotta go price a job...be back later.

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I'm all ears and evesdropping too - - the wiff wants to paint or ?etc? the front porch before we put the house on the market so I'll be like a sponge on this thread.

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That's really all that's to it for that effect. Once the stain has done it's thing it needs to be neutralized. Some folks use a baking soda and water combo, but I can't imagine the clean up that would involve...I use ammonia and water. Mix it about 8 water:1ammonia. Use a watering can to fully cover the stained area and scrub that in with a stiff broom too. Then you're back to the washing again and again...and again...until the wash water runs clear. You gotta get all of the residue off.
Once that dries it will look dull and crappy. The way that it looked while wet is pretty much what you'll have with sealer. If you want to do touch ups or further enhancements you can...and it won't take the 4 hours this time. You can almost watch it happen. I usually end up neutralizing the touch ups after about a half hour. That residue needs washed away too.
Next is the sealer. Unless you're indoors use a solvent based clear seal. The Xylene based ones seem to be the best. It should be rolled on, 2 coats in perpendicular directions. Sherwinn Williams has a great clear sealer and Shark Grip traction additive if you think you'll need it. I'll dig around for some pics to help show what I've posted.
There are other ways to apply acid stain to give other effects, but that's how I do the verigated and mottled.

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  To get the varagated effect ,, do you use different colors?  I have seen some that are kinda yellowish [is that a word?] along with a reds and greens.  is there a special way to get this effect,, 
 do you spray the doninate color[ lets say red] to completely cover the floor,, or do you leave spots that yoiu want another color,
 You mentioned deluting the color with water,, is this to make it a lighter shade?

I'm just about ready to stain the rest of my patio, so this is a cool thread,, biggrin
I'm all ears,, carry on teach,,,

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You can do multi-colors in different ways Bad Rat. I like to have my accent color(s) ready and lightly mist them onto the main color as I go. That's the wet on wet method. You can also do it the same way as touch ups, after the min color has been neutralized and washed. The wet on wet seems to give a more natural, mottled effect. Yes, we dilute to get lighter shades. The newer the concrete, the less stain it takes to achieve your color too. Check to be sure that the stain you're using is "dilutable". I've never used one that wasn't, but they could be out there.

For your project, Bad Rat, after you stain your new section...you may need to do a diluted wash over the old and new combined to help even the colors.

I gotta go place a wall, but will try to get those pics up later today.

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  Thanks C.O  I used some grade of commercial stain on the other patio,, but after reading your how too's,, I think where I messed up was not leaving the stain cure long enough after doing the stain, before applying the sealer, did it all the same day I think,, it turned out real blochy looking, and looks like water spots in a lot of places,, not shiney at all,, I plan on sanding as much of the sealer off and try again,,
THIS IS A GREAT THREAD, Thanks for taking the time to do this C.O.

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No problem at all...ask any questions about this stuff and I'm glad to help.

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cool fellers.hey badrat.sounds like you have a good plan and sound advice from come on.will you also post photos of your job.yep,what badrat said.thanks come on.you guys are cool.

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  When the guy poured my last patio last week,, I was a bit concerned about him getting it sloped away from the house enough,, cause the crawl space opening is in this slab and I wanted to make damn sure it was sloped enough,, so I bought a lazer level and laid it out myself, but he got a low spot right in the worse place,, right in front of the crawl hole'' so water rushes to that spot and runs into the hole,, so yesterday I built a 1 1/2 ' high X 1 3/4 " wide dam around the hole,, [ the out door kitchen sets over this hole so it will be covered,, but today we had a little rain storm,, and my dam held,, infact I had a 1 1/2 deep puddle , which would be a good sized lake this winter,,, IT RAINS IN OREGON FOLKS
So now I am going to have to do a overlayment to get it right,,  I have held back 500$ of his pay, to cover this screw up,, he ain't a happy camper right now,, I ain't either,, furiousfuriousfuriousfuriousfuriousfurious

 C.O  is there a better salution ?  I checked into the cement polymer type , and that sounds like it probably would work,, it will probably have to be a inch to nothing over the whole slab,, to make it look right and take a decent stain,, whata ya think,, any Ideas????

-- Edited by Bad Rat at 01:48, 2008-08-28

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Dang! evileye How big is the area of the low spot? Is it an option to cut it out and redo that spot? If your kitchen will cover it you wouldn't see the seams. If not an overlay is the next option. I do them, but they are never my first choice. If you go with the overlay option use one that's polymer modified. They are so much stronger. The prep for an overlay is the same as the prep for staining. The overlay materials that I use come with a resin/bonder and I haven't had one lift or fail yet.

If the area is fairly large...how about building a concrete curb around it and set your kitchen on the curb? That would give you a permanant dam. Just a thought.

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photo bad rat.lets see it.maybe come on has the answer.in most cases ive seen,cut out is a much berrtr option.more work.but much better.i dont like overlay.the fether edge is a sob.

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Here's an acid stained floor...


a "fleck" floor...


and a patio done with that stain from Sherwinn Williams that I mentioned...

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Ooops! I put in 2 of that patio job. I posted those just to show the different products available.

Heh,heh....my wife would kill me!!! HawHawHaw!! That's her butt in one of those pics. AaaHaHa!

-- Edited by Come On at 10:12, 2008-08-28

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This is the area that is low,, there is about 1/2 " of standing water at the right side of the dam around the crawl hole,, it also runs into the vent hole to the right,,
I am hoping I can just do a overlay of this area that shows  here,, maybe 3/4 inch around the dam feathered out , to the center , there will be a hot tub at the area at the bottom of the picture,

 Gezzer<<<<<   I like your idea on the raised platform for the kitchen,, that might be a easier fix,,,ideaideaideabiggrin

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  C.O. thats some nice work, I particulary like the one with the cat, thats the look I am looking for.. [the darker varagated ]  whats the process for that look???? That rearend shot ain't bad either,, posting that could be hazardus to your health,,,ya know?????smilebiggrinbiggrinbiggrin;;;

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raised platform was come on.that was a shi--- job of skreeding.keep the 500.that sux.no reason for that at all.id be pi--ed too.

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Process for that look is the one explained in this thread. If you're using a stain which can be diluted start very weak and build to get the shade you want. I do that on the little test areas.
That's a damn shame about the low spot. Honestly if it were mine I'd consider the raised thing before I'd overlay or cut out. Quickest and easiest for sure.

Thanx for the compliments by the way.

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man come on.all those are top notch.i have to say that has come a long way from the etch and stain ive seen.man i like all those.i like badrats choice allso.looks like big slabs of marble.cool.good job come on.


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   Whats the process for doing the marbled look,, how do you get the darker lines, and the blending effect,,  trying to steal your trade secrets,, but could never match the talent  biggrin

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When using acid stain it's usually preferable to spray it down but in some cases I've found that brushing can help out with a pattern. Random fagstone, for example, I'll draw out my stones with soapstone, brush in the color and then engrave the lines. If a person wanted to use 2 or 3 colors or 2 or 3 dilutions you could do the same.
The pice shows a walkway done this way with the engraving done too. It can still look pretty good without the engraving, though. Some folks who were walking by thought we were finished before we started the engraving.


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  Thanks CO,,   Before I start this,, I want to be sure I follow the right procedure,, on new concrete,, do I need to clean it . like pressure wash, scrub, with some type of solution, or just speay it like it is? on the first one I messed up,, I just sprayed it  with out scrubing it or pressure washing it,, That might be where My screw up started,,  Thanks,, bill

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Oh for sure BR...scrub the Hell outta that thing. Most important part of the job...use a wash deck if ya can 'cause just the wand may leave stroke marks when usin' acid stain.
Pic shows the deck I use...my pressure washer is 4000psi. See the clean line? That was 1 pass and the surface didn't look dirty until we stated.

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you two are makeing me want to pour some concrete just to try that stain.man it is some good looking work.

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  Is there some chemical solution to use? ,, I don't have a wash deck,, but I will see if I can rent one , or maybe use a floor sander with the black pad??? or even a stiff brush on the sander, Buffer??

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Black pad would definately do the trick...you'd really have to lean on the broom, but it could work too. The only solution I use is when I have to degrease or sometimes when I have to remove paint. 
I was talking to a guy who did his own acid stain once (DIY) and directions told him to acid etch as part of his prep work. That's not really a great plan because each time acid is used the reactivity of the slab is reduced.

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  The acid stain I used ,, stated right on the bucket,, that it would now work if the concrete has been previously etched,, as it  removes some of the chemicals that react with the stain, ; I think I will go for the black pad rthen rense it real good with the pressure washer,, more as a spray to get the reisue off than as a blast,   my washer is just 3000 psi, I think,, maybe less,,

I did NOT clean the other slab before I stained it,, thats why it is spotty I bet,,

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That plan should work just fine BR...and yup, I think we found the culprit responsible for your splotches. How old was your first slab when you stained it? The newer the concrete, the more reactive it will be. I always find a small area where I can do some testing before I jump at doin' the whole slab. I start with a fairly weak mix and go stronger if needed too 'cause you can always go darker but it's almost impossible to go lighter with acid stain.

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  It was probably just a week or less old,, And I didn't delute the stain at all. It looked pretty good untill I put the sealer on    it never did have a shine, then it turned blochy and in places looked like water spots had dried on it,,
I'm hoping I can get most of the sealer off with either the black pad or some fine grit of paper, .. at least most of it,,, I'm not worried about the stain so much, [ I know that won't ever come off] I Think the problem is in the sealer,, The BOSS wants a shiney surface,,weirdfaceyawn

I showed her your picture of the flagstone walkway.. now I think she will be wanting that, you didn't cut the grout lines in that did you,, just laid it out and brushed it on , and left the grout lines as undyed concrete,then just sealed it??

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In that pic they are cut, but to be honest there wasn't much difference. To just stain and seal would look good. Don't forget that the slab should be 30 days old before ya hit it with stain and especially sealer.



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well bad rat in about 3weeks or so you can give it try.cool.it will be intresting to see the outcome.i bet you'll do well.and come on.thats some nice work you do.cool.its come far in resent years.looks great.

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Come On wrote:

In that pic they are cut, but to be honest there wasn't much difference. To just stain and seal would look good. Don't forget that the slab should be 30 days old before ya hit it with stain and especially sealer.




  That was another mistake I made,  I stained and sealed on the same day,, probably a week or less after it was poured,,  man when I screw up I do it right, and in bunchessmilesmilesmilesmile  I have plenty of other honey-do things to keep me busy till then

 I put new exaust on my bike today,, now I think I am gonna have to put in a fuel management module, the exaust lets it breath better and it needs more fuel,, always something,, like a can of worms,, but it runs like a scalded cat,,,



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this time you have some good help,i bet it comes out great.come on has the goods on that work.good luck bad rat.

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