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Post Info TOPIC: Installing a New Heater Boiler


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Installing a New Heater Boiler



 This is what I been doing this week,,,,
I am replacing a old hydrotherm boiler for my hot wather Radiant heating system, with a much more efficient Weil=McLain Ultra. condensation , thing-a-ma-jig, 92% efficiencybiggrin 
 the old boiler was removed ,, and the new modified piping is well under way, lots of soldering to do,, cut fit,, cut some more, throw that piece away cut new piece,, nono fun fun fun,, in case anyone is interested,, copper is EXPENSIVE these daysfurious lots of changes to the make the new system work,, new technology ya knowconfuse
Here are a few beginning pictures, more to follow


-- Edited by Bad Rat at 13:24, 2009-01-15

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Wow, "warp speed 1 Mr. Zulu" biggrin

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Hi Paul here. looking good there. What is the little black pump and 1" copper drop beside of it for?
Later Paul

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rofl.gif "Mr. Zulu"  rofl.gif 

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hey bad rat.you sure you aint makin whiskey.hahaha.jk....looks good.

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paul52446m wrote:

Hi Paul here. looking good there. What is the little black pump and 1" copper drop beside of it for?
Later Paul



  Hi Paul,, the black pump is the system circulator pump,,, and the 1 1/4 line next to it is the boiler outlet, The red pump is the boiler circulator,, the 1/2 line between the 2--1 1/4 lines is where the expansion tank goes,,,
  ZULU  ??? last time I looked I was carrying a soldering gun    ,,, not a spear  lol

Little more work completed


-- Edited by Bad Rat at 17:06, 2009-01-16

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geezer69 wrote:

hey bad rat.you sure you aint makin whiskey.hahaha.jk....looks good.


 does it look like a still?? might be a good idea,,, 



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no,it dont look much like one but we could fit it in with a few more parts.

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Bad Rat wrote:


ZULU  ??? last time I looked I was carrying a soldering gun    ,,, not a spear  lol


that was a play off of Star Trek because the project looked like something from the USS Enterprise - - eyepopping.gif

I am impressed with all that sweated copper - - - - as my Grandaughter used to say when she was first beginning to speak - - "My nebber do dat" no

What are you doing for heat in the meantime???





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Mello Yello wrote:

Bad Rat wrote:


ZULU  ??? last time I looked I was carrying a soldering gun    ,,, not a spear  lol


that was a play off of Star Trek because the project looked like something from the USS Enterprise - - eyepopping.gif

I am impressed with all that sweated copper - - - - as my Grandaughter used to say when she was first beginning to speak - - "My nebber do dat" no

What are you doing for heat in the meantime???





 2 small electric heaters from Costco,, I hope this new fangled gadget works as good as those 2 cheapie heaters do,, the old boiler was a piece of CRAP,, replacing it is costing about 5500. but the cheapest bid I got for the work was almost 10K,  so I bought the boiler online, and doing the instalation myself,, learning alot about plumbing,, more than that saying that s%#t runs down hill and payday is on friday,,  and wiith this kind of plumbing,, you can still bite your finger nails,,,
we installed new effecent windows last summer,, man what a difference. now if I can just stop  the drafts under the doors,,cry

The house is really well insulated,  I bought it through a state GI FHA loan origionally, and they required that the seller put more insulation  in to make it qualify ,and pass the FHA inspection, biggrin



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Seems like this one is goin' all right...ya gotta like that. The door draft...ya mean directly under the door...like a space? Or a structural issue under the threshold? confuse We have those 800 Series steel doors and they're great. The ones that they replaced were also steel but had a draft at the bottom. I ran a felt weatherstrip along the bottom and it worked like a charm. The space was practically invisible but the cold air found it's way through. hmm

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In past residences I have used screw on door sweeps on both sides of the door with pretty good success but that may not work in your situation.



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 The drafty door thing is a easy fix,, [worked with doors and entry systems for meny years, both my sons are in the door business] just havn't got that far yetcry
I saw some gadgets on tv that has a sack type bag that has a round piece of foam that when installed , fits under the door with the foam, on each side of the door, and when closed it seals off the gap under the door,, all for the amazing low price of $19.95 and if you buy in the next 10 minutes ,, they'll throw in a free onebiggrin  buy them at home depot for $3.50 biggrin in various colorswink

I have all new doors for the house,, so for now   a towel under the door works fine,, besides that summer and BBQ season is right around the corner,, I hopesmile

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Bad Rat wrote:

 The drafty door thing is a easy fix,, [worked with doors and entry systems for meny years, both my sons are in the door business] just havn't got that far yetcry
I saw some gadgets on tv that has a sack type bag that has a round piece of foam that when installed , fits under the door with the foam, on each side of the door, and when closed it seals off the gap under the door,, all for the amazing low price of $19.95 and if you buy in the next 10 minutes ,, they'll throw in a free onebiggrin  buy them at home depot for $3.50 biggrin in various colorswink

I have all new doors for the house,, so for now   a towel under the door works fine,, besides that summer and BBQ season is right around the corner,, I hopesmile




"Q"? did you say "Q"? - -- I just got back from Woody's Famous Barbeque House with a bunch of ribs, brisket, sausage, tater salad, beans and blackberry cobbler - - - - AND, it was all good hungry.gifP



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giggle.gif  laughing.gif  Heh,heh "tater salad" aww reminds me of Ron White, "Ya caught the Tater Salad." rofl.gif

BBQ would be good...Mmm-Mmmm. biggrin

So is the new boiler up and runnin' and keepin' the Bad Rat cosy? aww

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Come On wrote:

giggle.gif  laughing.gif  Heh,heh "tater salad" aww reminds me of Ron White, "Ya caught the Tater Salad." rofl.gif

BBQ would be good...Mmm-Mmmm. biggrin

So is the new boiler up and runnin' and keepin' the Bad Rat cosy? aww



Not quite done yet,, still need to wire the controls, I'm leaving that to a experienced electrician friend, the weather has been pretty decent lately,, so getting in  a hurry isn't an option,,
we have put off this investment for  quite some time,, mostly because the weather here isn't normally as bad as it has been this year,, but with so much other work, that needs to be done on the house, I needed to get this done this year,, and like I mentioned,, this years weather convinced me to get-er-done,,biggrin
 And it has been a learning experience for me,, modern technology ya know,


 The white PVC is the  [1] exhaust and [2]condensate vent,, it draws the combustion air from outside, the last picture is in then loft where it exits to the roof,, the black pipe is a pipe within a pipe,, stays separated through the roof, and exits as 1 stack   [clear as mud huh??}smile  But I made a mistake and got them backwards, so I have to put in a few 45* pieces to change them over,,,[ we all can't be perfect all the time] so be nice,, this is my first install,, and definitely the last

-- Edited by Bad Rat at 18:24, 2009-01-17

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Impressive piece of work Rat thumbsup.gif 

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Come On wrote:

Impressive piece of work Rat thumbsup.gif 




Ditto thumbsup.gif



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 Hi Bad Rat Paul here. I will keep looking at your pic. and talk about a few things. The things i am going to mention are code here in the states, and might not be there. But they are things that make  it safer and easier to 
 do your service work over the years.
 On you feed value set up, you only have a pressure reducing value. You really 
 should have a backflow  preventer in that line. The reason is , if the check value that is built into the feed value you have ever goes bad then you would be mixing your boiler water with your drinking water. very dangerous
 situation. A back-flow preventer will stop this.  Also after the feed value you should have a union and then another stop value. this way you can turn  off 
 the two stop values at replace or repair your feed value set up, and you don't have to break into the system.
   Our code says that that you have to have a stop value just before the 
 expansion tank. the reason is so if the bladder goes in that tank you can just shut off the value and change the tank. you will not have to break
 into the system.
    Is the brick chimney a indoor chimney? Is there anything else dumping
 into this chimney besides the water heater? The only thing that makes a chimney up draft, is the heat that is going into it.  So you water heater by itself might not put enough heat into the chimney to let it up draft
 properly . If it doesn't draft properly it will condensate inside the chimney
 and that has a acid content that will deteriorate your chimney and that can put carbon monoxide in your house . They make a chimney liners out of 
 aluminum. you can buy them in different sizes and different lengths.
 you just drop it down inside your chimney.  this liner is also code in the states.  Please remember that i am not trying to tell you what to do, i have been doing this for 40 years and i have a large boiler license, and i always
 try to keep things  safe and convenient  Later Paul

















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 There are a couple more  things i don't see that you might want to ask your dealer about.  The feed line leaving the boiler by usa  AMSE Code says  you have to have a low water cut off and a strap on back up hi limit switch. Reason for these  are. If the limit switch in the boiler fails the strap on back up limit will shut off the boiler.   If you have a low water cut off just above
 the boiler,and you have a leak down low, the low water cut off will shut off the boiler long before the boiler runs out of water. Because if the boiler was to dry fire with no water in it, you will lose your boiler.  Later Paul



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paul52446m wrote:

 Hi Bad Rat Paul here. I will keep looking at your pic. and talk about a few things. The things i am going to mention are code here in the states, and might not be there. But they are things that make  it safer and easier to 

 do your service work over the years.
 On you feed value set up, you only have a pressure reducing value. You really 
 should have a backflow  preventer in that line. The reason is , if the check value that is built into the feed value you have ever goes bad then you would be mixing your boiler water with your drinking water. very dangerous
 situation. A back-flow preventer will stop this.  Also after the feed value you should have a union and then another stop value. this way you can turn  off 
 the two stop values at replace or repair your feed value set up, and you don't have to break into the system.
   Our code says that that you have to have a stop value just before the 
 expansion tank. the reason is so if the bladder goes in that tank you can just shut off the value and change the tank. you will not have to break
 into the system.  
Hi Paul,, thanks for the infromation,, I appreciate it alot,,,
 I didn't put in a back flow valve because, I was told that the pressure control valve  would work as one, but after reading the manual and your advice, I now know I need one,, I have ordered it and should be here next week,, I also put in the stop valve at the expansion tank,,
 
 Is the brick chimney a indoor chimney? Is there anything else dumping
 into this chimney besides the water heater? The only thing that makes a chimney up draft, is the heat that is going into it.  So you water heater by itself might not put enough heat into the chimney to let it up draft
 properly . If it doesn't draft properly it will condensate inside the chimney
 and that has a acid content that will deteriorate your chimney and that can put carbon monoxide in your house . They make a chimney liners out of 
 aluminum. you can buy them in different sizes and different lengths.
 you just drop it down inside your chimney.  this liner is also code in the states.   The chimney is  2 separate stacks that are lined with Terracotta pipe,, it is a indoor chimney ,, Please remember that i am not trying to tell you what to do, i have been doing this for 40 years and i have a large boiler license, and i always
 try to keep things  safe and convenient  Later Paul
Not a problem at all Paul,, I really appreciate the help,, like I said,, this is the first,[and hopefully the last boiler I will ever do,, cry Its definately been a learning experance,, but also fun,, I enjoy jumping in to stuff like this,, sometimes regreting it but always eager to learn,, I always figured i could at least try doing anything I wanted to do,, and if I screwed it up,,,, who cares ,,,,,,cryI could always find someone a little smarter than me to fix itbiggrin  Ya never know till ya try it,, and just might learn something in the process,, I certainly have,, [don't do it againno]
Oh Yeah!!   the low water shutoff valve?? it is built into the system,,  Thanks biggrin


















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Hi Bad Rat Paul here. I am sure everything will come out fine, you are doing a good job.
One thing i for got. You need a 1/2" in line spring loaded check value in the feed value line
The reason is that the back flow preventer can drip water out the bottom when you have well pressure
going up and down. So the back flow need to be in a constance pressure area. If you go from your domestic
water line on the left, put stop value first, then in line 1/2" check value, then back flow, then pressure reducing
value, then another stop value all in a horizontal line. the stop value can be on a vertical.
watch that the arrows on all three parts are pointing toward the boiler. Later Paul
Ps if you can't find a 1/2" spring loaded check, you can use a 3/4" and a couple of reducers or if you have to you can use a swing check value, i like the spring loaded better.
   Are you using any antifreeze in this system??


-- Edited by paul52446m at 20:43, 2009-01-20

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 Put in the check valve , and got it wired up, but found out the transformer for the pump was bad,, wouldn't kick on ,,so ordered a new one of those, To test the system,, I pluged the pump in direct, and tested for pressure and leakdown,, and all was good , heats in a hurry, and has about 10* of heat loss from boiler throughout the complete system, back to the boiler,, now to get that transformer installed and we are good to go,,  mission completebiggrinbiggrinbiggrin

 looks like a steam engine on the roof from the condensate

 No anti freeze,, but the pipes are insulated, If I need antifreeze,  I can just break into the line at the circulating pump and not have to drain the system down

-- Edited by Bad Rat at 10:42, 2009-01-24

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Waytago Rat!   clap.gif

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sounds good Rat. I am glad every thing is working ok If i was in your area i would have helped you wire it up.
10 to 15 degree drop around the system is normal. What water temp. do you run in this boiler?
Most these Hi eff boilers, the lower the water temp the more eff they are. But you cant go too low without adding more radiation. I turn mine down to about 150 degrees for spring, summer and fall. Late fall i put her back up to 180 degrees. It condensates a lot more at 150 degrees so it is more eff. Later Paul



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paul52446m wrote:

sounds good Rat. I am glad every thing is working ok If i was in your area i would have helped you wire it up.
10 to 15 degree drop around the system is normal. What water temp. do you run in this boiler?
Most these Hi eff boilers, the lower the water temp the more eff they are. But you cant go too low without adding more radiation. I turn mine down to about 150 degrees for spring, summer and fall. Late fall i put her back up to 180 degrees. It condensates a lot more at 150 degrees so it is more eff. Later Paul



 Thats good to know Paul,, the unit is set for 180, and comes back at 170.  when it gets a bit warmer I will cut it down a bit,, normally it will be turned off in the spring,  [around march , april,, and back on about oct,, ]

Normally it don't get very cold here.. coldest is probably low 30's hardly ever below freezing,, [ except this year ,, it got down to the 20's,, worse storm in 50 years,]

 I plan on installing a water heater tank , soon    so it will probably run more,,,



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you could always turn the temp down. if you can't get it up to temp in the house, then you know you went
down to far. I have a boiler hot water maker on mine so i have to run boiler the year round. it replaces the old water heater. if your water heater is 70% eff. and you switch to a boiler mate to heat you domestic hot water
then you are making hot water at 90 plus eff. you must be feeling better? Have a nice night. Paul

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paul52446m wrote:

you could always turn the temp down. if you can't get it up to temp in the house, then you know you went
down to far. I have a boiler hot water maker on mine so i have to run boiler the year round. it replaces the old water heater. if your water heater is 70% eff. and you switch to a boiler mate to heat you domestic hot water
then you are making hot water at 90 plus eff. you must be feeling better? Have a nice night. Paul



  Paul   Check your P/M



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Hi rat paul here. i found some more info on your boiler. That boiler was made to heat the house with out having to add more radiation. you have a out door temp sensor, right?. when you checked the temp at 180 degrees
coming out, it was cold outside. as it warms up out side your out going temp will drop . thats the way they get the seasonal eff. into the 90'.s. Because the outdoor controller is controlling your out going temp, i don,t think you want to change it even if you could. Both the gas value and burner air blower modulate from 20% too
100% So that way it can maintain the right out going temp. So it can go down as far as 21,000 btu and up as hi as 105,000 btu., or anywhere in between.
The next thing that you should check out, and i don't know a lot about this. I was told by the distributor that you have to check your PH levels of your water in the boiler every year, because if it get do dirty it will take out
your heat exchanger, so you would lose your boiler. I think you can buy kits to do this. If i was you i would check with a distributor on how to do this, and what it suppose to test. Later Paul

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  I do have a out door sensor that came with the boiler,,where would I install this sensor, outside? I read that, and assumed it was to be used if the boiler was placed outside , insted of inside a heated area..

Also I have been getting auto lock down alerts for supply water being too fast,, and it has to be reset manually,, how do I slow the water down?
  I am think ing I might need to get someone local to set this thing up right,, it is all on factory settings now,,

 If you don't mind, and want to see a manual, you can go to gthis site and pull up the manual on line
http://weil-mclain.com/downloads/ug3_boiler_manual.pdf

its the 105 series 3 ultra

-- Edited by Bad Rat at 22:06, 2009-01-26

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The out door sensor has to be out side above snow level and in the shade at all times. It would save you money to install it because it would take your water output up and down so you don't have that 180 degrees all the time. Do you have your Boiler Manual and the control supplement manual. I did download a manual, but i thought you had a series 2 so i got the wrong one. i will start over. Right now the only was that i can think of to slow the water flow through the boiler is to turn a stop value a little closed. When i get the right down loads
i will check out. The Ultra Control Supplement covers the controls and has the trouble shooting charts in it.
That why i asked if you have that. You can also down load that and print it out. later paul

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Hi Rat Paul This is all i found in the trouble shooting charts-------------------------------------------------------------anual reset limit open Set if manual reset limit open Reset with manual reset on control
Heat exchanger temp high Set if either the heat exchanger outlet or inlet is higher than 200f Reset with manual reset on display
Supply water too fast-- Set if supply water too fast has occurred 5 times since last power cycle-- Reset with manual reset on display (also resets 5 times counter)
Supply > return by 58 °F Set if supply > return has occurred 20 times since last power cycle Reset with manual reset on display (also resets 20 times counter)
Temperature sensors Hx inlet or outlet, or flue sensor is open or shorted Reset with manual reset on display
Flue temperature high Set if flue temp > 220 °F Reset with manual reset on display
Flame fault Flame detected when there should be no flame (actual flame or flame detect circuit hardware fault) Reset with manual reset on display
Ignition fault Set if more than 5 ignition retries Reset with 1 hr auto reset OR with power cycle
Hardware fault Set if issue with flame detect hardware (could see dual fault here - flame and hardware)
Ram check fails or rom check fails
Reset with manual reset on display
Gas valve fault Occurs if hardware controlling the gas valve does not open
or close during the ignition sequence as expected within allotted time.
Reset with manual reset on display
Blower fault Occurs if there is rpm feedback when blower should be off during ignition sequence.
Occurs if rpm cannot be control to within +/-100rpm before ignition.
Occurs if there is no rpm feedback during ignition


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Hi Paul again, I did not get the new down loads, My printer just took a dump. I will try later tomorrow after you buy me a new printer. HA. HA. Later Paul

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paul52446m wrote:

Hi Paul again, I did not get the new down loads, My printer just took a dump. I will try later tomorrow after you buy me a new printer. HA. HA. Later Paul



 LMAO,,, Put it on my bill,,biggrin my puter took a crap awhile ago too,, when I was trying to post that website,, I had to reboot to a earlier date,, it was doing all kinds of goofy stufffuriousdisbelief,,,, I got that whole manual with the boiler, but had downloaded it prior to recieving the boiler,, takes alot of paper too,, furious

I tried that closing the return valve a little,, so we will see if that helps,, is  the circulating pump suspose to come on as soon as you turn the boiler on or wait untill the thermastat calls for heat?

I really apprecate all your help Paul,, not only will I buy you a new printer,  [ saw some at goodwill the other daybiggrin] but I will cook you up some of the best ribs ya ever wrapped those smackers around,, biggrin


-- Edited by Bad Rat at 00:40, 2009-01-27

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paul52446m wrote:

Hi Rat Paul This is all i found in the trouble shooting charts-------------------------------------------------------------anual reset limit open Set if manual reset limit open Reset with manual reset on control
Heat exchanger temp high Set if either the heat exchanger outlet or inlet is higher than 200f Reset with manual reset on display
Supply water too fast-- Set if supply water too fast has occurred 5 times since last power cycle-- Reset with manual reset on display (also resets 5 times counter)
Supply > return by 58 °F Set if supply > return has occurred 20 times since last power cycle Reset with manual reset on display (also resets 20 times counter)
Temperature sensors Hx inlet or outlet, or flue sensor is open or shorted Reset with manual reset on display
Flue temperature high Set if flue temp > 220 °F Reset with manual reset on display
Flame fault Flame detected when there should be no flame (actual flame or flame detect circuit hardware fault) Reset with manual reset on display
Ignition fault Set if more than 5 ignition retries Reset with 1 hr auto reset OR with power cycle
Hardware fault Set if issue with flame detect hardware (could see dual fault here - flame and hardware)
Ram check fails or rom check fails
Reset with manual reset on display
Gas valve fault Occurs if hardware controlling the gas valve does not open
or close during the ignition sequence as expected within allotted time.
Reset with manual reset on display
Blower fault Occurs if there is rpm feedback when blower should be off during ignition sequence.
Occurs if rpm cannot be control to within +/-100rpm before ignition.
Occurs if there is no rpm feedback during ignition



Is your finger sore from all this typin??wink



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Hi rat Paul here. I would think that you boiler pump would only come on when you have a call for heat. But i would have to check that out in your manual when i get it later. It might be that it does come on sooner because the boiler  might start only if a flow switch is made, and pump would have to be going to make the flow switch??? check this later. Wife and i will be heading to town
 i little later to buy your new printer!!   Later Paul


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paul52446m wrote:

 i little later to buy your new printer!!   Later Paul


  I use that excuse all the time when I want something new,, my old puter worked fine, I just wanted a bigger 24"moniter, so the old one suddenly took a dump,,, now I have a puter in my shop,, but its too cold out there

I closed the boiler return valve about a 1/4 ,, and havn't had any lockouts since,, and the return water temp is about 5 to 6* cooler than the supply is that about what it should be  [ set at 180. supply hits 178-180* return holds about 4-6 * cooler,,]

I shut the thing down last night and flushed all the lines with new water, [again]the old was kinda dirty, but the second flush cleaned it up, after circulating a few days,,,



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paul52446m wrote:

Hi rat Paul here. I would think that you boiler pump would only come on when you have a call for heat. But i would have to check that out in your manual when i get it later. It might be that it does come on sooner because the boiler  might start only if a flow switch is made, and pump would have to be going to make the flow switch??? check this later. Wife and i will be heading to town

 i little later to buy your new printer!!   Later Paul


Picking up the new transformer later today, and will get it wired tomorrow,, then we will see if the pump  stays on all the time,, it has been modulating more since I closed the valve a little,
 I check it every hour or so, to make sure it hasn't locked out anymore,, so far so goodbiggrin


-- Edited by Bad Rat at 13:28, 2009-01-27

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Hi Rat Will i got my new printer and $40.00 worth of paper so i got your manual down loaded. All 108 pages.
Radiation out put is rated by temp of water and gal. per. min. flow. You need to flow at least i gal. per min.
to get the heat out of the radiator. It looks like like you have a B&G 100 or 125 pump.. depending on what head pressure you have on this pump, it could be trying to pump up to 10 gal. a min. It looks like you have 3 zone values and 4 loops. So if only one zone was open you are whipping that water through there pretty fast,
so you would not get much temp. drop. It all depends on how long the loop is and how many ell you have on that loop, and also if the zones values are full flow values. Regular zones values will usually flow max. 3 gal.
per min. and full flow zones values will flow up to 6 or 7 gal. per min. Now if you open all zones at the same time buy turning heat way up then watch temp different, and out going temp.
Make sure you have that boiler pump wired in to the right post, because i don't think it is suppose run all the time. It is ok to flush you system to clean it out right now. But don't do that any more than you have to.
Every time you put new water in the system, When you heat water it drop all the lime and mineral out of the water. this will build up in the bottom of the boiler and if you get to much lime build up then you are dry firing
the boiler and it will crack, no more boiler. also never flush cold water through a hot boiler, same thing,
crack and break. PS how you planning on getting those Ribs here!! Later Paul

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PS how you planning on getting those Ribs here!! Later Paul



Send me your address, and when the weather clears up you will find out how I get them there,, Mello showed me how to package stuff,, so it gets ALOT of attentionbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin

We got some more snow today,, about 2 "  but its suspose to turn to rain tonight,,

 I'll try turning all the zones wide open,, and see what happens

  EDIT [ 10 min later]

I opened up all the zones , the temp went to 180 supply and return dropped to 165

 Bu I don't think I want my house 85 * all the time,, especally in the B/Rs

so if thats the case,, maybe I should turn the boiler temp down to about 160 and turn the zones back down and see what happens,, right??

-- Edited by Bad Rat at 19:46, 2009-01-27

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Make sure you take the fuse off the package. Paul

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paul52446m wrote:

Make sure you take the fuse off the package. Paul



  Did you see that picture of the package he sent me? I doctored it up a little, to make it look like a bombsmile , I was gonna include it here but I can't find it,,

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yes i saw it , thats why i said you better take the fuse out before you ship or leave you return address off the package. later

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 Hey Paul,,  I got the boiler up and running,, had a few lockouts with return water too fast, then supply water too fast,, I shud down the valves a little, and it seemed to do a lot better,, now the thing is going into standby mode, I have to reset the thing to get it to come back on,, usually when the weather outside has warmed up a little,  Will installing  the outside temp senser  make any difference?? it states that it is optional.. also according to the instructions,,  the thermastats should be wired directly to the control panel, rather than through a transformer,, pg 55 of the manual, wired into panel P-15 , the way its wired now is from the zone valves , to the transformer ,, none going to the control panel at all,, would this cause the lock out, and the standby mode to kick on?  it seems to keep the room temp that the thermastat calls for,,  Thanks    Bill

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Hi Rat Paul here. How many wire post on there on your zone value, and what are the letters of those post.
In a zone value system usually The thermostats Makes the zone value and in your case a pump relay also.

I am guessing that you have a end switch in your zone value. If you do, that end switch i would think would
be the thermostat going to your control box. I really need to see all your field wiring to under stand how you have it wired. Can you take up close pic and no. them. Later Paul



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 The thermastats are wired as they were on the old boiler,  no wires from the zone valves goes to the control panel,, just the transformer,, it seems to work ok,, it shuts off for standb, and comes back on when heat demand is detected,, but I'm wodering if it is working like it is designed to work,, theres a gob of wires hooked up to these zone valves, all from the previous boiler,
the letters on the z/valves are looking facing the Valves R to L,, 2- 2- 5- 4

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hi rat paul here. from the p-15 post ,are there any wires on these post, if so where do they go? if it is coming on on a demand for heat than something is telling it to come on. take the cover off the pump relay that is above the transformer and see if you can take a close pic. later paul

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G/Mornin Paul.. the red wire coming from the far right  Z/V post # 2 is wired into the transformer, the other red wire coming from the Z/V is wired into the top of the relay, and the wire coming out of the Bottom of the relay goes to terminal P15 post 1 & 2,, the other 2 white wires are from the return and supply temp sensors ,, the Z/V are all wired in series,, would it be better to get rid of all the garbage series wiring and wire the Z/V's directly to the control panel?elimating the trans and relay? or leave it alone,,? It hasn't done the lock out thing for awhile,, ,, but goes on standby,, then comes back on when demand for heat goes off,, Am I worrying about this thing too muchcry? seems I have been obsessed with getting it right, and continously messing with the flow , which on the lockout stated the return and supply flows were too fast,, but seem to be ok now, since I closed the valves a little,biggrin

-- Edited by Bad Rat at 11:46, 2009-02-03

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Don't touch that wiring or i will tell your wife to slap your patty!! Hi Rat paul here. Ok if any one of your thermostats call for heat it opens that zone value, the zone value has a end switch which powers the T&T post of the pump relay. Your pump relay has two sets of contacts, one has 110 volts going through it to start pump, the other set of contacts has 24 volts going through it to start boiler. And that is the only was it can be wired up when you are using zone values. later Paul

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Eff of your boiler. The lower the return water temp, the more it condensates and the higher the eff. is.
So if you run it the way it is at 180 degrees for a year, your eff. for the year will be maybe 88% eff.
Now if you install the out door controller , the water temp. will be 180 degrees at outdoor temp. of 0 and
below. If it was 70 degrees outside , your water temp would be 130 degrees. So your water temp. will modulate between 180 hi to 130 low depending on how cold it is out side. So if you are heating at lower water temps a lot of the time your boiler will condensate a lot more and your yearly eff. could be 97% eff.
So you bought a hi eff. boiler to save on heating bills, so do you want no outdoor control and 88% or use outdoor control and and 97% eff.??? Did i explain this good enough. Later Paul

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