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Post Info TOPIC: Gonna get expensive now!!!!


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Gonna get expensive now!!!!


DAMMIT, DAMMIT, DAMMIT - more house pain$. Just checked the roof for leaks now that all of the snow and ice are gone - gonna be expensive!!!! Got some leaks at the eaves and maybe a rotten rafter end or several - and I don't/wont do roofs any more - especially a with double layer of shingles the idiot before us created. Whoever buys this house - not going to have to do much of anything. Going to start looking for quotes tomorrow - and as far as doing the job, going to be lowest end - WE ARE MOVING !!!!


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its getting to be a run-away train,, ain't it??  can you patch it and get it sold?  or is it beyond that?no

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Bad Rat wrote:

its getting to be a run-away train,, ain't it??  can you patch it and get it sold?  or is it beyond that?no



Last year, probably could have done it but I'm going try doing a 'clean up' first even though I'll call 3-4 roofers to take a look and quote. If not too bad price wise - we'll see. The first thing I'm doing tomorrow is measuring to see how honest the roofers are with their per square "guesstimates" and hope that they wont try to pay all of their Xmas bills on me. It's a straight job, no cupolas, no extra peaks or strangely shaped valleys. While we don't have a lot of unemployment here, the building trades are still looking for early spring work if they aren't working on the computer chip plant.

 



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Dang Dave, when it rains (er uh, snows) it pours, eh?

-- Edited by Mello Yello on Tuesday 15th of March 2011 08:20:55 PM

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My Bro-in-law is a basketball coach but moonlights roofing,, ( his dad was a roofing contractor for years  and he grew up work for his dad) He has a trick way of measureing a roof,, He takes a small diameter rope, marked off in feet ,( maybe a red mark or flag every 10 ft something that can be seen from the ground ) then drills a hole in a Ball, like a tennis , rubber, ball and attaches the rope to the ball 

 he stands on the ground and tosses the ball up over the ridge and then pulls it back down till the ball is just over the ridge , and then checks his footage marks on the rope,, takes a measurement along the eves for legnth and multiplys one against the other,, saves climbing up on the roof. and gets you pretty damn close,,

-- Edited by Bad Rat on Tuesday 15th of March 2011 10:30:49 PM

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BR - sounds like a nice method of doing the measurements. Not sure I can still throw a ball with a couple of weak shoulders (too many skiing crashes) but I'll give it a try. I just want to be prepared when some contractor shows up and says I need XXXX squares when I only need XX

MY - this year, me and snow - arghhhh. But at least today we are getting a break - it's a balmy 35* and raining.

Choo Choo

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Dave W (Irelands Child/IC2)

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Leaning a ladder up against the side of the house, maybe you can get a measurement from the ridgerow down to level with the eves then measure over to the corner of the eve and then just figure the hypotenuse of that right triangle which will be one measurement of the roof.  Was that description "screwed up" enuff for you???confuse LMAOwinkbiggrin

Watch out guys I'm trying the "THINK" this morning.

Dave, is that your house behind the avatar roadster pic?

-- Edited by Mello Yello on Wednesday 16th of March 2011 08:06:50 AM

-- Edited by Mello Yello on Wednesday 16th of March 2011 08:08:29 AM

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MY - I THINK I understand what you said - and yep, trig functions are my last resort. And thinking - not before my 3rd cuppa coffee

No, that is not my house behind my AVATAR. Mine is similar though a wee bit larger due to the garage and office/extra bed room placement

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I know - - - just the little bit of ?thinking? that I did this morning has the kitchen all smoked up.biggrin Of course, don't forget that you can count the siding and divide the width of the house by 2 to get your right triangle if worse comes to worse !

I'd better go lay down now - sleep.gif

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i hate tearin off 2 layers.one is simple'comes rite off but 2 sux.the cost will show that too.if i could see your house i could get purdy close on an estimate.i still nail em on by hand.thats the best way to do it but i think im the only one still doin it that way.good luck with it dave.

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geezer69 wrote:

i hate tearin off 2 layers.one is simple'comes rite off but 2 sux.the cost will show that too.




I did that ONLY once and vowed never to do it ever again



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NOTHING about roofing is easy - - - - I've done two new ones but NEVER AGAIN - - - when I did them I was in top shape and had been hanging drywall for a living but I thought my thighs and back would descintergrate before we finished no

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I had a new roof put on when we bought this place in  81,, and it had 3 layers,,furious and leaked like a sive,,, I put on wood shakes,, which is (or WAS) a big  northwest thing,,
but finally replaced that with the compisition version of shakes,, 3 years ago,,

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i dont care if i never tear off another 2 or more layer roof.i dont mind roofin if its not real steap.after a 6/12 pitch it starts gettin tricky.i dont want to do it ever day or a big project though.a normal house my mom had a roofer give her a price of 7'000.i bought the material and did it for 1,000.theres money in roofin if you can keep busy at it.

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I haven't gotten any dollar numbers yet, but did my arithmetic as far as number of squares needed and no matter how sharp the pencil is, it still comes up at least 24 squares with no allowance for waste. Of course, a bunch of rolls of 15# felt paper, drip edge and nails or staples all need to be added into the project. I'm still going to see if what I have can be fixed then if a buyer questions it, then maybe negotiate. If not - pain in the left rear pocket of my jeans.

Mayby one of you can come up with a different number then 24 squares. The house is in two sections. The main part is 30x45 and the other 25x35 and it has a low 4 in 12 pitch.

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I come up with 22 1/4 squares.

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yeah,me too meller.thats with no waster or valleys.a pic would help where the 2 roofs come together.or if its 2 seperate roofs its 22 1/4.one bundle ,29 pcs , should do the ridge if usin 3 tab.if the roof is just straight gable there wont be much waste.a bundle ot two at the most.23 sq. mite just do it.24 dang sure will.

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Thanks guys - was hoping someone would lower that number a bit. I think the online calculators use a WAG* fudge factor. My own, with no on line "help" calculator was 23 - but what do I know? Heck, I even had one that said 28 and another 26 - and I knew they were wrong.

The house, a standard '60-'80s center hall colonial has a straight roof, no valleys, one chimney





*WAG = Wild A## Guess

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22.25 is what I came up with also,,  since you are moving,, I definitely would consider patching,, and if your luck is any good,, just possable a new owner won't catch it.. and if they do,, negotate the price ,, and let them worry bout finding a good price,

does the state require a inspection,?

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Bad Rat wrote:

22.25 is what I came up with also,,  since you are moving,, I definitely would consider patching,, and if your luck is any good,, just possable a new owner won't catch it.. and if they do,, negotate the price ,, and let them worry bout finding a good price,

does the state require a inspection,?



OK - so IF I have to have a roof done, and IF the roofer says anything more then 22-24, he is full of bull droppings.

Most banks require a structural, electrical and termite inspection if you take a loan but the state has taken a caveat emptor attitude.

 



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Dave W wrote:

Bad Rat wrote:

22.25 is what I came up with also,,  since you are moving,, I definitely would consider patching,, and if your luck is any good,, just possable a new owner won't catch it.. and if they do,, negotate the price ,, and let them worry bout finding a good price,

does the state require a inspection,?



OK - so IF I have to have a roof done, and IF the roofer says anything more then 22-24, he is full of bull droppings.

Most banks require a structural, electrical and termite inspection if you take a loan but the state has taken a caveat emptor attitude.

 



If your measurement are pretty close.. you will have some waste.. but with no hips or valleys,, should be a straight shot,, like Geeze said 23 Sqs should do it,, that leaves you 75 sq feet of extra material.. bu most suppliers will take back any you don't use as long as they are complete bundles and not damaged,,

 



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Well, I've got two roofers coming so far next week to quote. Talking to one - sounds like he wants to do a Rolls Royce job on my Yugo wallet - and that ain't gonna happen. The Rolls Royce guy is "much loved" by the neighbors so we'll see what his $$$ are tho his retirement savings wont be all my donations. It's also income tax week for meevileyeand that might determine how much wallet pain I can bear as well

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Yep, I was right!! Not only is that a Rolls priced job, it's gold plated and jewel encrusted. They started in by saying "they don't do it by squares any longer". Huhhhh. First red flag. Then the sales guy went on about how they had this miracle material that replaces felt paper - 'nother red flag - but if I really wanted the 15 pound stuff, we can save you some money. These guys don't seem to hear when you are saying that this house will be sold this year, sharpen your pencil. OK - my "bad" news - with their 'miracle' under layment stuff, $10,200. With felt paper, $9800.

I have 5 box vents on the roof which these guys want to replace with a ridge vents. Not a bad idea, but there are 5 pieces of 1/2 plywood they want to replace at $48/sheet to plug 6" those holes. This adds another $245 to each quote based on a $14 piece of Home Depot plywood.

I did rough dollar numbers using Home Depot materials(which are not construction trade prices):

Same shingles they are quoting, GAF $28/bundle
Felt paper, ridge vent, drip edge, a sheet of 1/2 plywood/other supplies totals ~$2800.

So their labor, profit, old shingle disposal is in the $7500 range - kinda steep, IMHOdisbelief

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My $0.02 - - - "find a hungry, married roofer"

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Mello Yello wrote:

My $0.02 - - - "find a hungry, married roofer"


 

 Yep - not done yet, tho have crossed this guy off the list.



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i could do it for that drivin from here!!!.yep,send them boaz packin!!

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geezer69 wrote:

i could do it for that drivin from here!!!


 No doubt that Geeze knows his stuff and could put you a dandy lid on that house but Im trying to picture him in upstate New York this time of year. nodisbelief LMAO - - - he would look like a cross between the pillsbury dough boy and the michlen tire man with all those insulated coveralls on winkbiggrin

 



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Mello Yello wrote:
geezer69 wrote:

i could do it for that drivin from here!!!


 No doubt that Geeze knows his stuff and could put you a dandy lid on that house but Im trying to picture him in upstate New York this time of year. nodisbelief LMAO - - - he would look like a cross between the pillsbury dough boy and the michlen tire man with all those insulated coveralls on winkbiggrin

 


 It would almost be worth the bucks to see that - right now, 29* and about to snow. The next week or so, the predictions - no more then 45* with most below plus well below freezing over nightconfuse. It usually doesn't bother me, but this year - loooooong winter once it finally got going and my '31 is screamin' to be driven.

 

The DW is leaving for San Antonio on Sat. for a week so I have my 'instructions' for more qoutes plus paint the BR  but, I get to go out and eat some artery clogger foods

 



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I would almost walk to NY just to see Geeze all bundled up like a eskimo.. biggrin

That price is steep no doubt,, some of those guys think everybody is stupid,, Bet he don't get alot of work,,,

 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 08:28:16 PM

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at that price he wouldnt have to do many roofs to live well.i ben wearin 1 shirt,one pair of britches and no sock hat for dang near a week!!!and a pair of slip on tenny shoes.yep, im happy as dead pig in the sunshine!!geezer days are here again!!!

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Geez Dave, sorry I haven't checked in here for awhile, me being a roofing contractor and all.  Just been busy with motorcycle stuff and business 10-12 hour days. 

I did your measurements, added for 2 bundles of starter and 3 bundles of ridge and came up with 24 squares.

That roof torn off and installed would be 3960.00, add 100.00 to reflash the chimney, 50.00 for vents, 30.00 for new pipe flashings. Total......4140.00.

That's what we would be at but this is Oregon not New York. I have no idea what disposal fees are there but I'm assuming shingle pricing should be close. Hope this helps.  BTW, the lowest bid around here.......definitely guarantees horrible workmanship. I know you're selling but just something to consider.

JD



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CHS wrote:

Geez Dave, sorry I haven't checked in here for awhile, me being a roofing contractor and all.  Just been busy with motorcycle stuff and business 10-12 hour days. 

I did your measurements, added for 2 bundles of starter and 3 bundles of ridge and came up with 24 squares.

That roof torn off and installed would be 3960.00, add 100.00 to reflash the chimney, 50.00 for vents, 30.00 for new pipe flashings. Total......4140.00.

That's what we would be at but this is Oregon not New York. I have no idea what disposal fees are there but I'm assuming shingle pricing should be close. Hope this helps.  BTW, the lowest bid around here.......definitely guarantees horrible workmanship. I know you're selling but just something to consider.

JD


JD - How soon can you get here?? The number I had in my mind was about $5k for the job. You saw what I came up with below as far as materials then to add a fair profit to the roofer. And disposal fees are $48/pick up bed load or about 2.5 yards for a short bed like my F350. I have no problem with a guy making a reasonable and fair profit. I do have a problem if he wants to buy a new pick up (or the down payment, anyhow) with my job aloneyawnno

 



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well chs i see your a fair man.that price is good anywhere!my hats off to you.we have folks around here that would be glad to do that roof with the times like they are.im one of em.heep lookin dave that roofer is there you just got ta find him.

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geezer69 wrote:

well chs i see your a fair man.that price is good anywhere!my hats off to you.we have folks around here that would be glad to do that roof with the times like they are.im one of em.heep lookin dave that roofer is there you just got ta find him.


But geeze - it's c-o-o-o-l-l-d-d and windy in my part of the worldhmm

Today
sunnySunny. Highs in the upper 30s. West winds 15 to 20 mph. Gusts up to 35 mph this afternoon.
Tonight
nt_sunnyClear. Cold with lows around 15. West winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph...becoming northwest around 10 mph after midnight.
Monday
partlycloudyMostly sunny and blustery. Highs in the upper 30s. Northwest winds 15 to 25 mph. Gusts up to 40 mph in the afternoon.
Monday Night
nt_partlycloudyPartly cloudy. Lows in the lower 20s. West winds 15 to 20 mph with gusts up to 30 mph...diminishing to around 10 mph after midnight.

 



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i wouldnt live 10 minutes on your roof with that cold and wind.no way!!id have to have everthin i own on to get up there.but, if i did fall off id be covered. proly wouldnt even feel it.id hit the ground like a feather pillow!! hahaha

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hahahaha - - - got me a visual of Geeze all bundled up and falling off the roof - - - he would never stop bouncing - - - -like Pecos Bill's girlfriend - - - can't remember her name?

Oh Yes, it was sweet "Slewfoot Sue" and what a bronc rider she was

watch this for a nostalgic look and listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB8_THAyd5o

End of hi-jack sprint.gif



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Sunday 27th of March 2011 01:37:38 PM

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I just read your first post..........2 layers of shingles. (Supposed to read that first, not last).

Add another 6-700 bucks to cover extra labor and dump fees, which around here are based on weight. So your original calc of about 5k was pretty close, for around here anyway.

It's finally starting to get temperate here again. Trees budding, etc.

I see you finished the roadster, looks fine..........real fine!!!!! thumbsup.gif



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CHS wrote:

I just read your first post..........2 layers of shingles. (Supposed to read that first, not last).

Add another 6-700 bucks to cover extra labor and dump fees, which around here are based on weight. So your original calc of about 5k was pretty close, for around here anyway.

It's finally starting to get temperate here again. Trees budding, etc.

I see you finished the roadster, looks fine..........real fine!!!!! thumbsup.gif


 Anyone close to $5 to 5.5K will have a job. At $10K - not a chance

 

Thanks on the roadster. As far as done - are they ever?? So far this winter, different rate springs F&R, fixed the tranny leak, heat shields on the mufflers and I'm about to order parts for hood hold down straps if I don't dream up something cheaper (easier too). Temperature here - well today it got to 37, with more cold to come

 



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i bet that hot rod would like it down south too.i just dont see how you do it.i think you'll love it.way more warm weather.its 54 here.humid and windy.im freezin my tookus off.what a wuss. hahaha

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Well the second guy showed up today - a sub for the guy I called. This is supposed to be about the best in the area and the one most folks in the neighborhood use. I'll get a call tomorrow with the price - but I have a feeling that we pizzed each other off and it wont be a pretty dollar figure.

Now, my rant!! Why is it when you ask for prices on work, whether it's the house, car/truck, yard, or what ever, many of these guys think you are stupid. I have a 30" skylight in the roof over the office. I know the owners before us would never have installed it so it has to be 20 plus years old. It doesn't leak, nor has it ever. As I told him, we are moving. Soon!!  I will not put a several hundred dollar Velux unit (installed price) in for someone else to enjoy. I agree, what's in there is a clunk, but you are a roofer, flash it so it wont leak when you are done. If the new owner wants a better one, the GAF shingles will still be available for a few more years.  I'm the customer - it's fine to make your recommendations and to give me good reasons why your offering is best, not a dumb statement like "I only do it the right way". In the end sell me what I want and price it accordingly. I'm not the most patient person - ever - but I did walk away before we had a good loud one. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Oh well - there are many more contractors/roofers in the phone book



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You didn't tell me you had a skylight.........add 120.00 to reflash.

Man, I've never recommended a Velux when they already have an existing skylight. Someone has to do all the trimwork inside as well. More work, more time, paint matching, stain matching...........what's he thinking???????????

Keep going down the list until you find someone you're comfortable with. 



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CHS wrote:

You didn't tell me you had a skylight.........add 120.00 to reflash.

Man, I've never recommended a Velux when they already have an existing skylight. Someone has to do all the trimwork inside as well. More work, more time, paint matching, stain matching...........what's he thinking???????????

Keep going down the list until you find someone you're comfortable with. 


$120 is no big deal and I expect to pay for that somewhere in the price. And as far as redoing the interior trim work, when this guy and I were talking all he kept saying was the Velux price wasn't that bad then he would mutter about not knoing what was inside. He's right in both cases. The Velux window itself is the cheap part - I've installed them in other homes I've owned. When you buy one, you get the window - and choose from a list of options - starting with the flashing and go from there. The inside would have to be completely redone!!!! The inside - all nicely finished T&G pine and molding with a textured (not popcorn!)ceiling

I'm at the point I'm starting to get P.O.'ed. What's wrong with giving the customer WHAT HE WANTS !!

 



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Holy craparony -I followed the wrong 'career path' way back when I had a choice

We just got home from a trip and we have some decent weather so I could call for more quotes---------- soooooo

I just had another guy in - just left - his price only  $13,872!!!!!!!!

 



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Dave, would a metal/aluminum type roof be feasible in your situation?

I do know that they go on very quick and also help lower your home owners insurance in some areas.

Some of them are also lifetime too.

It was just a thought that might give you a broader choice.



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Monday 11th of April 2011 01:36:06 PM

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Mello Yello wrote:

Dave, would a metal/aluminum type roof be feasible in your situation?

I do know that they go on very quick and also help lower your home owners insurance in some areas.

Some of them are also lifetime too.

It was just a thought that might give you a broader choice.



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Monday 11th of April 2011 01:36:06 PM


 I have considered that - but remember - we are planning to move and and a lot of folks don't like those saying they are noisy - not. I do have one on my screened porch and it has been a great roof with not a bit of noise. There are still lots of contractors/roofers in my area and one of them will be hungry. There is one downfall to where I live - it is the most prosperous town in this part of the state, with no debt, good roads, reasonable taxes (for NY State!!) etc, etc, etc so a lot ofcontractors think we are their pay checks. Unfortunately, there are also lots like me who are retired, far, far from wealthy who bought BEFORE the money people arrived but still need to pay the Obamanations high prices without a raise in SS or pension for the past 2 years



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Dave W (Irelands Child/IC2)

Quando omni flunkus, moritati (When all else fails, play dead - R Green)



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We have a metal roof now and I have never noticed any noise.  However, it is very heavy gauge which could make a difference.  Personally, when I was a youngin', I preferred sleeping in some of the older houses with a tin roof during a rain storm.  It's almost like a Lullabye.



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Mello Yello wrote:

We have a metal roof now and I have never noticed any noise.  However, it is very heavy gauge which could make a difference.  Personally, when I was a youngin', I preferred sleeping in some of the older houses with a tin roof during a rain storm.  It's almost like a Lullabye.


 When we were in VA last week I saw some very nice homes with metal roofs. One was just shiny and looked crappy, the others flat painted and darker color and looked very well done ---- but there are those that think noise and wont even look at a home like that.

I have a couple more guys to call this morning and hope at least one is hungry and his kids don't need to go to college on me aloneashamed



-- Edited by Dave W on Tuesday 12th of April 2011 07:24:18 AM

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Dave W (Irelands Child/IC2)

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I've had both - - a shiney one and a dark green one - - - - the only advantage of the shiney silver roofs, especially here in Texas, is the hot summer heat that they reflect "away" from the home.  Good luck in finding a sub contractor - - - - Maybe your Wiffy could take in ironing and you could pick up a paper route to help defer the cost -biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Forgive me, I'm in a silly mood this morning.  Gotta run the Interstate today because the Wiffy has another Doc's appt.

Have a good'un,

meller



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One more quote today - at least the pricing is getting to be close to what I had expected to pay. Then the, hopefully, last tomorrow and a guy who comes well recommended by a friend. I'll let ya'll what the final $$ are once I settle on a roofer.

Intersting now is that everyone is quoting 'lifetime warranty' GAF or Owens Corning shingles, ice shield and a ridge vent. This guy had no problem with my skylight. What ever guy I choose, it still looks like the job will be more then expected. At least this guy today gave me some reasons why the pricing had gone so high - workman's comp and accident insurance mostly.



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Dave W (Irelands Child/IC2)

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OK - and now, hopefully the last guy has done his thing. The one I mentioned in the last post ended up at $8400, then this last guy was $7800. Still not pretty, but at least in the real world. The $7800 guy, a young guy, comes recommended by a friend, the other has been in town for many years and knows how these houses were originally built. My wife, who works part time in the Town Building Dep't. is going to check their credentials with the Building Inspector as he wouldn't give us any recommendations before we got any quotes - we have a very strong Town ethics code and he didn't want to go on record with "favoritism". My guess - good chance it will cost $8400ashamed.

The project: Remove old shingles (2 layers), install two rows of ice shield, full coverage with 30# felt paper, all new drip edges, 3 new D-W-V flashings, flash the chimney, skylight and area between garage and house, remove 4 of the 5 box vents, install arch. shingles, probably Owens Corning Duration, install a ridge vent.

All shingles now have a life time transferrable warranty.

 

 



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