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Post Info TOPIC: Gonna get expensive now!!!!


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RE: Gonna get expensive now!!!!


I'll bet you're ready to get this thing over with and into someone else's hand, eh? pray.gif

I know it still "Ouches" but at least it will be behind you sprint.gif



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CHS


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Dave W wrote:

OK - and now, hopefully the last guy has done his thing. The one I mentioned in the last post ended up at $8400, then this last guy was $7800. Still not pretty, but at least in the real world. The $7800 guy, a young guy, comes recommended by a friend, the other has been in town for many years and knows how these houses were originally built. My wife, who works part time in the Town Building Dep't. is going to check their credentials with the Building Inspector as he wouldn't give us any recommendations before we got any quotes - we have a very strong Town ethics code and he didn't want to go on record with "favoritism". My guess - good chance it will cost $8400ashamed.

The project: Remove old shingles (2 layers), install two rows of ice shield, full coverage with 30# felt paper, all new drip edges, 3 new D-W-V flashings, flash the chimney, skylight and area between garage and house, remove 4 of the 5 box vents, install arch. shingles, probably Owens Corning Duration, install a ridge vent.

All shingles now have a life time transferrable warranty.

Dave,

Some things to consider..........7800.00 is not bad for all the extras you neglected to tell me about up front..........biggrin

Regarding the lifetime transferrable warranty, see if he's an O.C. "Preferred" contractor. He can then write a 50 yr. NON-PRO-RATED warranty. This covers labor AND material in the event of any failure. The lifetime nonsense merely covers L&M for the first 5 years then only shingle replacement at a pro-rated amount after that. The "Preferred" warranty is gold and should be treated as such. You won't care as you're moving but it's a good selling point.

I write a lot of those warranties for folks. We are a "Platinum" contractor for O.C. so they basically give us back 50% of the cost which allows us to pretty much write them for free. If bid price is close, it allows us to provide more value for our clients hard-earned dollars.............

 

 


 

 



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CHS - I guess I didn't realize that some of  them were going to be added as well. but the fact that you are a contractor and I'm for sure not, had to have "known" that they exist. First of all, any D-W-V has to have new seals - that's a new one on me, but...... Secondly, the drip edge - how do I know that?? Chimney flash - gotta have new. Joint between the house and garage - it's a separate roof section so it has to have flashing and I noted that when I said what the roof sizes were. And you were aware of the skylight. So where are the extras to you as a roofing contractor beyond that?

Now, as far as 'lifetime warranty", I honestly couldn't care less about that. I wont be living here - and as far as home sale, believe me, all buyers look for is condition. It wont make or break a sale if it's within a couple years, if then.

Now, as far as roofers - the low end guy has no manufacturer's qualifications so he might not get the job - he just doesn't give me the right vibes when he shows up in a ratty 15 year old Ford Explorer with a light duty aluminum ladder roped to the roof rack and his helper looks as bad as the Explorer. Then he is 2 hours late with no apology calling me with the quote the next day. Then, I DO NOT give any contractors more then a few bucks honest money deposit down, not half like he wants as there are too many dead beats doing shoddy work or disappearing at least in my area.



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CHS


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Settle down Dave...........it's just a roof I've never seen and was roughing a quote fer ya. See the smiley face icon?

I did figure pipe flashings and vents, chimney flash and skylight.

Joint between the house?????????? Can't SEE what that is.

Eave flashing is an option with us because that's how the other shops in town do it. OR they say nothing and try to make it an add later.

2 rows ice and water shield = 100.00 per roll + labor.  Not a requirement here but is where you live because of "ice damming". Forgot that, sorry.

Continous ridgevent is 4.50 / ft. vs 6.00 for an attic vent, so it's definitely a more expensive option.

As for showing up 2 hrs. late with no phone call or apology............I would expect a boot on my left butt-cheek!

We do a 10% down to secure a spot on our schedule. We're almost 3 months out at the moment and will soon be 4 come summer. Asking for half up front is BS imho, but I don't live in your area so I have no idea what's normal there.



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Not a problem CHS -just a bit testy with age occasionally, or so it appears. My wife continually reminds mewink

Ridge vent and ice shield are 'desireable options' here and add $800-1000 to the job.

The garage roof is lower then the house proper so needs some sort of flash.

If he had said 10% I would have no problem. My guess is that he has no working capital and needs cash to buy materials - which makes him suspect to scamper if he has several. As far as schedule, the quoters are only about 2-4 weeks out, pending the weather. Most are just walking roofs for quotes so far.

Again, Sorry if I appeared cranky - I wasn't.



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CHS


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No problem Dave, I can feel your frustration all the way accross the states.

If the garage sits lower then it will need to be reflashed. Depending on the type of siding we generally charge around $2.00/ft.

I guess if the price is acceptable you could pay the material supplier directly and have them load the shingles up there. I've dealt with folks who ask for half up front and I agree, kinda shady. We have a contractor here in town who is now doing that. I don't expect him to be in business long. Also wasn't paying his guys on time or in full each week. Things that make ya go hmmmmmm.  confuse

Here's something fun, this guy has a rough estimate section on his website. I did your roof and it came in a bit low. Probably so you'll call them to come out. (Smart). Add for all your accessories and you'll probably be close.

http://www.ridgecon.com/

 

 

 



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I know NOTHING about roofing but when I had my Drywall company in Colorado, we made the owner/contractor pay a material draw once the material was delivered to the location.  Then we did another draw "immediately" after the rock was hung and then a final draw "immediately" after taping, floating and final texture was done.  It always seemed to work out ok for both sides back then.



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Sunday 17th of April 2011 10:27:31 AM

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Mello Yello wrote:

I know NOTHING about roofing but when I had my Drywall company in Colorado, we made the owner/contractor pay a material draw once the material was delivered to the location.  Then we did another draw "immediately" after the rock was hung and then a final draw "immediately" after taping, floating and final texture was done.  It always seemed to work out ok for both sides back then.



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Sunday 17th of April 2011 10:27:31 AM


 Thats basicly how we did it ,, only we called it a percentage draw,, on our repeat customers,[ which 90% were], new builders or subs were always checked for licenses and bonding , and proper job permits, and paid with the percentage system,  we were more of a general contractor,, and paid them the same way,,,

 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Sunday 17th of April 2011 10:01:16 PM

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I would not have a problem giving the guy at least the cost of the materials when delivered or even 10% scheduling fee as CHS said, but to give him half before any thing happens when the 5 roofers that preceded him said no money down, pay on completion. This tells me he has no credit or operating capital and, locally with 2-3 or more down payments, could disappear into the sunset. Call me paranoid, but too many folks in the NY Capital District/Saratoga area have been "bit hard" - for lots more then a roof. BR and Mello - you were most likely an established company or worked for one, had some advertising or at least a reputation in your area, and that will make a difference plus you had an established pay/contract routine. Then, of course, him showing in a ratty vehicle and helper with a junk ladder doesn't inspire confidence either.



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I don't think you're being paranoid at all, Dave,

if it walks like a duck? well you know the drill !

I think Rat was working for Denver Drywall but,

as for me, I was just an independent with a good

finishing partner and we both had good reps and

many recommendations from previous jobs.



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Mello Yello wrote:

I don't think you're being paranoid at all, Dave,

if it walks like a duck? well you know the drill !

I think Rat was working for Denver Drywall but,

as for me, I was just an independent with a good

finishing partner and we both had good reps and

many recommendations from previous jobs.


 I worked for Denver D/W when I was in Colorado,, but after moving to Oregon I started my own company,, strictly commercial,, Hi rise stuff,, shopping centers, large jobs,, with adverage of 25 -50 employees,,all Union shop,,,so yeah  we had to maintain a reputation,,, and do buisiness in a professional manner,, or we wouldn't have been around as long as we were,,  90% of our jobs were from repeat customers, of referals from customers..

word of mouth is the best advertizement you can have

 

 

I have to agree with you Dave,, If some body showed up at my home looking like that.. I would have got the same  "FIRST" impression,, and definately wouldn't go along with the 1/2 down BS,,, "hit the road jack"

I never have been able to figure out how some people get involved with these scam situations,, wireing Thousands of $ to some complete stranger,, pure stupidity is all I can figure,,

 



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Gonna go with the next to lowest guy and Owens-Corning Duration Premium shingles in their Estate Gray. The lowest quote guy keeps calling, leaving messages wanting my business - makes me wonder if he hasn't "appealed" to others too and has nothing lined up. I could tell him why, but I'll leave that for someone else nastier then me. My chosen roofer is several (3-4) weeks out, pending the weather.



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You are probably making the best decision , Dave,, a "GUT"feeling usually speaks pretty loud,

but with the weather you have had this winter, I would bet that the reason being the lowball guy is hounding you for the job , might not be because he is a crook,but a small time guy trying  to make a living for his family.. and a bit more Hungry than the others, sometimes jobs can be really hard to come by,, but most likely to play it safe,, you made the right decision,,

The next in line guy,, is probably a established contractor, and don't do the work himself  and pays employees,, but has to charge more to cover his profit margin, thats the way business works, I'm sure you thought about all these things,, after all you didn't just fall off the turnip wagon did you??biggrin  NAH didn't think so,,,,,

Hope it turns out nice ,,,headbang.gif



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As "we speak" the new roof is going on. The 5 man crew arrived at 7:15, the main part of the house is stripped, the new shingles are going on and no problems yet as far as bad plywood. The shingles arrived on a very large truck and were hoisted up top via a hydraulic lift. So far so good. They wont finish today, but figure tomorrow, Saturday, half day.

The low price guy keeps calling and now is almost begging for the job wanting to price negotiate. I kinda feel bad for him, but warm and fuzzies - he doesn't give medisbelief



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Dave W wrote:

As "we speak" the new roof is going on. The 5 man crew arrived at 7:15, the main part of the house is stripped, the new shingles are going on and no problems yet as far as bad plywood. The shingles arrived on a very large truck and were hoisted up top via a hydraulic lift. So far so good. They wont finish today, but figure tomorrow, Saturday, half day.

The low price guy keeps calling and now is almost begging for the job wanting to price negotiate. I kinda feel bad for him, but warm and fuzzies - he doesn't give medisbelief


 He's just hungry, been a hard winter, and roofing isn't a fun job in any kind of weather,

its hard NOT to feel sorry for those guys,, they have to eat and support a family just like we do.  but the tatics he was using was a red flag right from the get-go, comes with the hunger pains,,, but a few friggin crooks with their methods of operation, make it hard for everybody,,, it isn't a crime to be broke,, but leads to crime sometimes,,,hmm better off being safe than sorry,

Hope the job turns out well,, You did a good job of shopping,, thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Friday 3rd of June 2011 05:12:33 PM

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Bad Rat wrote:
Dave W wrote:

As "we speak" the new roof is going on. The 5 man crew arrived at 7:15, the main part of the house is stripped, the new shingles are going on and no problems yet as far as bad plywood. The shingles arrived on a very large truck and were hoisted up top via a hydraulic lift. So far so good. They wont finish today, but figure tomorrow, Saturday, half day.

The low price guy keeps calling and now is almost begging for the job wanting to price negotiate. I kinda feel bad for him, but warm and fuzzies - he doesn't give medisbelief


 He's just hungry, been a hard winter, and roofing isn't a fun job in any kind of weather,

its hard NOT to feel sorry for those guys,, they have to eat and support a family just like we do.  but the tatics he was using was a red flag right from the get-go, comes with the hunger pains,,, but a few friggin crooks with their methods of operation, make it hard for everybody,,, it isn't a crime to be broke,, but leads to crime sometimes,,,hmm better off being safe than sorry,

Hope the job turns out well,, You did a good job of shopping,, thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif

 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Friday 3rd of June 2011 05:12:33 PM


 BR - I don't think that guy was a crook, I just think he lacks experience and business sense.

So far this crew has done a nice job - me as supervisor have been watching some without being a PITA. They are 99% done with the main roof and the area over the front porch. The guys told their boss they didn't want to work Saturday, tomorrow - too many hours already this week, so it will be done on Monday, which is no problem for me. So far, no rotted plywood or other problem plus they completely cleaned up the stuff that missed the trailer. Whether my measurements were wrong or my math is bad, every quote had 27-28 squares and 27 + 1 bundle was unloaded this morning, so it looks like that's what it is!!

As far as me wanting to be a roofer - not a chance in any lifetime



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Happy for you Dave - - - can you feel the weight being lifted off of you yet?



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Mello Yello wrote:

Happy for you Dave - - - can you feel the weight being lifted off of you yet?


 Yep - a lot of concern has now gone. I've had worries over that roof for a couple of years now and this should take care of that. Now, if we could find a house in VA, or even a smaller one here if that fails.......



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As old as most of us are, I think we have all felt that feeling of the pressure being released from our lives and the desire to continue on to the next one.  When I say old enuff, of course I'm not including Bad Rat, the whipper snapper, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't still have a paper route that he covers on his Schwinn.

The Wiffy and I are facing a similar situation that Y'all are in relocating and down sizing but in today's economy, it's a little more involved for fixed income folks like us.

Watch them roofing nails that always seem to end up in the driveway !



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well,one less thing to worry about is a good thing.as long as you get what you pay for its good for them and you.

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Mello Yello wrote:

As old as most of us are, I think we have all felt that feeling of the pressure being released from our lives and the desire to continue on to the next one.  When I say old enuff, of course I'm not including Bad Rat, the whipper snapper, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't still have a paper route that he covers on his Schwinn.

The Wiffy and I are facing a similar situation that Y'all are in relocating and down sizing but in today's economy, it's a little more involved for fixed income folks like us.

Watch them roofing nails that always seem to end up in the driveway !

 

 they sure do,, and ALWAYS land points UP,,


 Not really a paper route Meller.. but I did sell flower seeds door to door,, if I can sell enough,, I get a brand new hachet with a scabbert,, even slides on my belt so its really neat and handy,,,  plus as a bonus for selling 200 more packages , I can get a really neat, real metal and painted 1/10 size truck,,

The last time I did this I couldn't sell any so I didn't want my mom to know I failed so I dug a hole and buried all the seeds,, and they all came up the next spring,, so she found out anyway,, didn't get to buy any more comic books that had that advertisement on the back cover,, either

That is a true story,, so help me whoever,,,,think I was about 10...

Glad the roof turned out good,, Pays to be cautious,,

 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Saturday 4th of June 2011 10:10:36 PM

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OK Dave,, are they finished and are you satisfied?

Inquiring minds would like to know.



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The garage part of the roof wont be done til tomorrow - they decided not to work Saturday, but from what I can see, very nice job. The architectural shingles we picked out are a little darker then expected, but they really look good after looking at some stained three tabs. Interesting that you have to special order those three tab shingles now.



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IT'S DONE!!! IT'S DONE!! IT'S DONE!

(Loosley translated, I'm broke, I'm broke, I'm broke)



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hahahahaha

SELL THE POODLE !

and then find a place to sleep, eh?



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Mello Yello wrote:

hahahahaha

SELL THE POODLE !

and then find a place to sleep, eh?


My DW would sell me first!!

I never knew how smart a dog could be - that pooch keeps me on my toes



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Dave W wrote:
Mello Yello wrote:

hahahahaha

SELL THE POODLE !

and then find a place to sleep, eh?


My DW would sell me first!!

I never knew how smart a dog could be - that pooch keeps me on my toes


 been wondering Dave... What does the "D" in DW mean,, ?????date.gif ordead.gif



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Bad Rat wrote:
 been wondering Dave... What does the "D" in DW mean,, ?????date.gif ordead.gif

 I always figured that DW stood for "Dave Worshiper" confuse



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Mello Yello wrote:
Bad Rat wrote:
 been wondering Dave... What does the "D" in DW mean,, ?????date.gif ordead.gif

 I always figured that DW stood for "Dave Worshiper" confuse


 biggrinno  Never though bout that posibility,,confuse but wonder if she thinks it means that ? I assumed it was Dear Wife,, but lots of words with entirely different meanings , start with "D"



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Bad Rat wrote:
 but lots of words with entirely different meanings , start with "D"

 Those would probably be the ones that I would use



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Guys, it's this

 

...... and maybe a little of the other



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Dave W wrote:

Guys, it's this

_______________________________________________________

OK, She's holding onto your hand so the "D" is for "Dependant" RIGHT?

(great emoticons BTW)



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Mello Yello wrote:
Dave W wrote:

Guys, it's this

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OK, She's holding onto your hand so the "D" is for "Dependant" RIGHT?

(great emoticons BTW)


 http://planetsmilies.net/

http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons.php

(you'll have to copy and paste to the address line)

These are where I get my smileys/emoticons. Copy at the "Forum" box then past on here or the other sites.

As far as my DW and I - best buddies and really independant but also dependant on each other and have been since 1992biggrin



-- Edited by Dave W on Tuesday 7th of June 2011 02:01:02 PM

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Dave W wrote:
As far as my DW and I - best buddies and really independant but also dependant on each other and have been since 1992biggrin

 Aw shucks, I know'd dat - - - - it shows everytime you type DW - - biggrin

Heck, Y'all are almost newly weds arent'cha?



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Now I'm PO'd - and it has not a thing to do with the roof. Well yes, but indirectly.

We live in the middle house of a cul-de-sac with a grassy island in the middle. It's very nice except when I want to back my RV in, but that's off the subject.

On Monday I had to park on that island so the roofers could get their trash trailer and equipment truck in so I left my truck parked on it for about 12 hours until after they had gone. Yesterday I had to go to Albany for some shopping, and when I came out, I noticed a couple of tires were low - very low. Got home and and decided to check for roofing nails stuck in the tread - nope, clean. Evidently, and only a guess, the little neighborhood c0@kroaches across the street thought it would be fun to let most of the air out of both right side tires. Pumped them back to 70psig (SB 80 psig) after doing the soapy water check, just in case. And yes, I checked the tires a couple weeks ago and installed some summer air. NOW, that brings me to a sob story - my almost new (heck, i only bought it in 1973) little 110v Crapsman compressor blew a hole in the bottom - RUSTED OUT - and it's only 37-38 years old and even made in the USA.

Now - I need to find a way to get those kids disciplined



-- Edited by Dave W on Wednesday 8th of June 2011 11:21:22 AM

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theres ben someone gettin in my car a nite here at the house and ive had 2 flats with no hole to be found in my tire. if i catch them little poots is on!!!

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Dave W wrote:
NOW, that brings me to a sob story - my almost new (heck, i only bought it in 1973) little 110v Crapsman compressor blew a hole in the bottom - RUSTED OUT - and it's only 37-38 years old and even made in the USA.

 Mine is about 8 years newer than yours but everytime I plug it in, I expect what you got.

Haven't drained the water out of my tank in many many many moons - fingers crossed !



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Mello Yello wrote:
Dave W wrote:
NOW, that brings me to a sob story - my almost new (heck, i only bought it in 1973) little 110v Crapsman compressor blew a hole in the bottom - RUSTED OUT - and it's only 37-38 years old and even made in the USA.

 Mine is about 8 years newer than yours but everytime I plug it in, I expect what you got.

Haven't drained the water out of my tank in many many many moons - fingers crossed !


 Drain what water?? Is that what the dingus on the bottom is for???? Hmmmm maybe that's why I had a gallon size puddle in my garage. Oh well, still have the big 'un



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Quando omni flunkus, moritati (When all else fails, play dead - R Green)



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LMAO - - - it should look and work like the drain on the bottom of a radiator.

I never figured out why Craftsman didn't put a water separator on those like some have.

Think I'll drain mine tomorrow just for biggrin's



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Wednesday 8th of June 2011 06:05:16 PM

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hahaha, back when i used all them air nail guns i'd drain the tank every day and put a drop or two of oil in the guns twice a day.the more water in the tank the less the air volume.hahaha. the compressor i have now has never had the water drained . hahaha, im slippin....glad this subject came up .think i better drain mine too.

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It's one of those things that seems to slip your mind like checking the air in the spare tire.

Thanks for reminding us, Dave.biggrin



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Gee, Dave, that's the same thing that happened to my old Speedaire some years back; it was circa 1971, and lived most of it's life in humid climates.  Fired it up one day and went about my ratkillin', and it just kept on runnin' and runnin', finally settled into my weak mind that something was amiss; found that puddle you mentioned, and figured it out.  I put an automatic drain valve on my new one; it "psss's" for about a half second every time it starts and stops.  Since it's been on there, I have never gotten even a drip of moisture from the ball valve next to it.  Has never been much of a thing here where we live anyhow - too dry.



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I have a big commercial 5H/P compresser,, only time I drained it was before I was gonna do some painting..or sand blasting,, havn't done any in years ,, so I bet its time,, gonna be a river towards the door,,,

thanks for the reminder



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I really feel bad because this dang thing had been one of those tools that just keep on chuggin'. I has a huge motor, 1 or 1-1/2 hp, way bigger physically then the so-called 6 rated Hp on the other one as well as a big iron compressor pump. It runs, I believe, at 1800 rpm rather the the 3600 of the new one - almost makes me want to do some mixin' 'n' matchin'of parts except the regulator tee is J-B Weld repaired. I'll take it apart tomorrow and save what I can and off to the iron monger along with the trailer axles and drums no one wants.

I think I try to find an auto drain for the other tho I do drain that one every few daysbiggrin



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Dave W (Irelands Child/IC2)

Quando omni flunkus, moritati (When all else fails, play dead - R Green)

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