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Post Info TOPIC: Anchoring brackets in stone.


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Anchoring brackets in stone.


I'm installing wooden flower boxes on the front of our house. The boxes are held up by slide-over wooden brackets that are attached to the window sills. One of the sills is made of stone(I think it's a bluestone slab). What's the most secure way to attach the brackets to the stone? There are already drill holes in the stone from previous flower box attachments; the holes were filled with sections of dowel, and the brackets were screwed into the dowels. That didn't hold very well(the dowels kept slipping out). Is there a better way to attach the brackets? Is there some sort of anchoring cement that will hold the bracket screws securely in the holes? Thanks in advance for any advice.

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tapcon screws will work great for that.they screw into a 3/16" hole that you drill with a bit that comes with the screws.im sure theres other brands but tapcon comes to mind.

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Geezer , I've ofter wondered, do you recommend high,

low or medium rpms when drilling into stone like that?



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Monday 30th of May 2011 11:47:18 AM

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I'd have that same question too, Geezer. The stone I'm mounting the boxes on already has holes from the last flowerbox mountings. If I'm going to be drilling more holes into it, I want to do it without weakening the stone.



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First of all WELCOME to Handyman Forum just make yourself at home.  There are lots of great people here and they are willing to share their knowledge anytime.  Sometimes you might need som hipboots cause our "hoorahing" can get a little deep but it's all in fun and we are all good friends.

Now back to your question.  Is there any way that you could possibly use the old holes for this installation?  Is there any way you can post a picture of what your looking at here?

meller



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I'd much prefer to use the original holes for this. I'll post a picture on Wednesday(that's the earliest I can do it).

Ideally, I'd like to find some sort of super-strong cement/glue/adhesive to fill the holes with, then sink the screws(with the brackets attached) to the stone. Keep in mind these brackets will be holding flowerpots that probably weigh about 10 pounds when watered.

Thanks for your help--much appreciated.



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Yep, they will indeed be a little heavy especially if you water them.

Anxious to see the pictures but I'm not sure that any adhesive woud

work in that application.

Just FYI - - - I hung the window boxes from hooks and chains fastened to

the soffit above the windows in a house that I used to own.  It worked out

good and looked dang good.  Just wanted to pass that along.



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Pictures will be forthcoming, although all they'll show now is a stone slab with holes drilled into the side.

There's gotta be some sort of anchoring cement out there that's strong enough to hold the boxes up.



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this is geezer. t j saw the posts and hollered at me. the speed should be medium on the big hammer drills.the smaller ones can run purdy fast.if you use a plain drill and polish off a stone in the hole and it quits cuttin, just take a nail,concrete nail works best,and drive it into the hole.that cracks the stone for the bit to have a place to start cuttin again.them pictures will help out a lot.we'll figger it out. oh yeah,i forgot, welcome to the handyman.

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Pictures would be nice,, but would reattaching the new boxes to the existing hole work? if the existing holes are large enough,( or you could drill them out larger like 3/8 or 1/2"then use concrete  epoxy to glue in wood dowels, that fit the holes)  then either screw the new boxes to the dowels, OR attach a wooden board to  the dowels, and screw the boxes to the board covering up any existing holes or damage, with out having to patch anything,,

Lowes has a excelent epoxy that really grips things like this,  check here

http://www.lowes.com/pd_40301-69-1405605_0__?storeId=10151&Ntt=concrete+epoxy&UserSearch=concrete+epoxy&productId=3203637&N=0&catalogId=10051&langId=-1

 

 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Monday 30th of May 2011 04:27:34 PM

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Bad Rat: that's exactly the system I used for the first set of flower boxes: drill wide holes (probably 1/2" wide), slam pieces of dowel in there and screw the brackets into the dowels. That worked for a few years, but eventually the dowels began pulling out of the holes.

The tapcon screw method is appealing because that's a system made for this type of project. If I go that route, I'll have to a) drill new (smaller) holes into the stone and b)fill the old holes. I just want to make sure the tapcon screws would hold the brackets and boxes in there without pulling out.

Pictures on Wednesday!



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Thats the reason for epoxying the dowels in,,, but Those Tapcon screws will hold for sure,, Welcome to Handimanbiggrin by the way



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Monday 30th of May 2011 05:10:56 PM

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I epoxied the original dowels into the holes, but don't recall using the Lowe's stuff you linked to. They held, but with moisture, freezing weather, etc., eventually gave out.

So I guess my next task is to figure out what to patch the holes with(before drilling the new ones). Any suggestions?

Thanks for the welcome, btw. This forum is fantastic. Quick, cogent answers.



-- Edited by swami7774 on Monday 30th of May 2011 05:26:59 PM

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http://www.confast.com/products/double-anchor.aspx

http://www.confast.com/products/technical-info/double-anchor.aspx

 

This is what I'd lean towards, if your material is thick enough.  The anchor that fits a half inch hole uses a 1/4-20 bolt or machine screw.  You should be able to find these, or somthing similar at a local industrial hardware supplier.  We used these, and other similar things for setting machinery on pads; they work rather well in a shear configuration, not as good in a tension setup, but will hold a good bit of weight; your flower pots should be no problem.  Do ya' think it might be overkill?? winkbiggrinaww



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Interesting, rrumbler. That's sort of a metallic version of the wooden dowel pieces I used originally. It might be overkill, but I'd rather overkill than under kill-and have the brackets pull out again after a few years.

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over the years ive used so many different methods of anchorin to concrete i cant remember em all.ive seen anchors break smaller pieces many times.hilti makes a product we called hilti hit. its an adhesive that goes in the hole then you drive any anchor in,even a slick rod, and it will not come out.im sure just about any good epoxy would do good for your use.this wont put presure on your piece either like some of them metal anchors do.when you use wood in a hole dont use a soft wood like pine.it wont last.use a hard wood and drill a small pilot hole for the screw.seal up any small cracks or chipped out pieces around that hard wood anchor and paint the end.it will last a long time glued in that hole.oh yeah,on the drillin of the holes with a hammer drill.a1/4 bit can turn wide open.a 1" bit will turn way slower.the bigger the drill and hole the slower they turn.dont ever buy a cheap bit like vermont american.they aint no dang good.you'll just have to go back and get a good un.



-- Edited by geezer69 on Tuesday 31st of May 2011 10:34:55 AM

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Yeah, I've had experiences with vermont bits, geezer. You're right about that.

BTW, is that a Fender you're playing? ;)

 

EDIT: Geezer, is this the stuff you mentioned?



-- Edited by swami7774 on Tuesday 31st of May 2011 04:26:52 PM

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fender strat,hahaha. yep,thats the stuff. it dang sure works. that tube will do a lot of small holes too.to bad it dont come in a smaller tube for a little chore.

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Do you think I could use that Hitli stuff to a)fill the existing holes and then b)sink the new screws(holding the brackets) right into it? Will it hold up the boxes? Or should I just fill the holes and drill new, smaller ones? The existing holes are about 1/2" wide, to allow for the dowel pieces that were in there.



-- Edited by swami7774 on Tuesday 31st of May 2011 07:13:39 PM

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i never used it to fill a hole.just for anchors and rebar doels. if you have a 1/2 hole the anchors that rumbler is talkin about should work out nice.but it needs to start out snug.if its loose put some of that lead bird nest around it or use an adhesive.that hilti stuff mire work to fill the hole and it mite also hold a screw or bolt . i just never used it that way.

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swami7774 wrote:

Do you think I could use that Hitli stuff to a)fill the existing holes and then b)sink the new screws(holding the brackets) right into it? Will it hold up the boxes? Or should I just fill the holes and drill new, smaller ones? The existing holes are about 1/2" wide, to allow for the dowel pieces that were in there.


 Is there any way that you could add some support other than where they are attached such as an L-bracket brace underneath them to help hold them up also?



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As promised, here are some pix of the stone sill I'm working with. The holes need to be cleaned out, but you get the picture(pun intended).



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The holes look to be in good shape( not busted out) I think I would just clean out the holes real good and get some of these http://www.boltdepot.com/anchoring-products.aspx  or simular, and use the exsiting holes,, these anchors would let the box to be bolted directly to the wall,, they also  make these with screws instead of the bolts,,,,like the sleeve anchors  ( 3rd  item down )being as the ledge you are attaching to is narrow, I wouldn't take a chance on busting the ledge out , by drilling more holes,,,,How much does the sill protude out past the stone below it?(or does it?)
 If its very much .. I think the flower box is hanging at angle, and needs to have something behind the box to make it set even with the ledge,, like a spacer of some kind,,



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Wednesday 1st of June 2011 02:13:38 PM

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The sill extends about one inch beyond the stone below. With the previous window boxes,  I used small stones as spacers between the box and the stone. Seemed to help lessen the torque on the brackets.

Do those bolts you linked to expand or is their size fixed?

I agree that drilling more holes into the sill might crack it, and I certainly don't want to do that. Thanks for the help!



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Do those bolts you linked to expand or is their size fixed?

 

 They are expandable but fit into a 1/2" hole  ( in your case) and expand when tightened ,, nad REALLY hold

 

 we always used these to install steel framed doors in concrete walls,, never had a failure, That I knew of anyway,biggrin

they need no epoxy ,  just insert in the hole, turn the screw to tighten,, you're done

 

 The spacer would be a good idea,, that would help carry the weight of the boxes, to be a sheer weight insted of a angled weight,,



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I'm not sure those bolts will be long enough, Bad Rat. Unless I'm reading the table wrong, the 1/2-inchers only have about 1.5" of thread. The brackets themselves are about an inch thick.



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swami7774 wrote:

I'm not sure those bolts will be long enough, Bad Rat. Unless I'm reading the table wrong, the 1/2-inchers only have about 1.5" of thread. The brackets themselves are about an inch thick.


 You can use any length of bolt you need.. as long as it has enough thread to tighten up the anchor,, which isn't much if the hole is the right size,,( should be rather snug in the hole , not sloppy loose)

I suggest you just go to Home Depot, or Lowes and ask someone in the hardware dept for some 1/2" sleeve anchors, and some 3/8" bolts or 3/8 all thread,,the same thread size as the anchors ( which is most likely 1/4x20,,) if you use althread you can cut it off to the legnths you need and reuse the nuts that come with the anchors,,

 2" bolts should be long enough to work,, after the anchor is set you can take the bolt out and then hang the boxes,, if you have 1 " of bracket,, and 1" into the anchor should hold fine..



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Thursday 2nd of June 2011 12:11:07 PM

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Sounds like a plan. Will hit HD tomorrow. Thanks!



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let us know how it worked out,,,biggrin



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Hopefully I'll post some pictures of the boxes mounted and full of foliage by Monday.



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Sounds like you have a plan, right?

Be sure and give us a play by play OK?biggrin



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Will do, Mello.



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what they said!! yep, that should be an easy fix.isnt it amazin what one little picture can do.

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Also amazing what one forum can do to help a guy!



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swami7774 wrote:

Also amazing what one forum can do to help a guy!


 This is probably about a fourth of our active members that have posted here and the

rest of them are knowledgable and willing to help as well.  Even tho we are a small

bunch, I think you'll find it to be one of the friendliest and helpful around.  Most of us

have also become bery good friends in the process.



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No argument there!

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Bad Rat wrote:
swami7774 wrote:

I'm not sure those bolts will be long enough, Bad Rat. Unless I'm reading the table wrong, the 1/2-inchers only have about 1.5" of thread. The brackets themselves are about an inch thick.


 You can use any length of bolt you need.. as long as it has enough thread to tighten up the anchor,, which isn't much if the hole is the right size,,( should be rather snug in the hole , not sloppy loose)

I suggest you just go to Home Depot, or Lowes and ask someone in the hardware dept for some 1/2" sleeve anchors, and some 3/8" bolts or 3/8 all thread,,the same thread size as the anchors ( which is most likely 1/4x20,,) if you use althread you can cut it off to the legnths you need and reuse the nuts that come with the anchors,,

 2" bolts should be long enough to work,, after the anchor is set you can take the bolt out and then hang the boxes,, if you have 1 " of bracket,, and 1" into the anchor should hold fine..




 Maybe a little addition to this:::::

I think to make it a little easier to mount the Boxes, after you have the anchors in place,, would be to use a stud ( the kind with the nut insted of the screw) in the hole,, which would make it much easier to mount the boxes,, With the studs .. you have a stud to hang the planter on untill you can get the nut started,, instead of trying to hold up the planter and trying to get a screw started,,,

I am just trying to explain this clearly,,biggrinbiggrin



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Friday 3rd of June 2011 09:21:16 AM

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I think I know what you're saying, but the brackets get mounted first. Then the boxes slide over the brackets, kind of like a tongue-and-groove effect. It's not like I have to hold the entire box with one hand while trying to drive the bolt in with the other.

Am I addressing what you suggested or am I off on a tangent?



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maybe some pics of the boxes and brackets will help in this discussion

that is ?if you can?



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Going out later to get the bolts, etc. Will post pix afterwawrds.



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swami7774 wrote:

I think I know what you're saying, but the brackets get mounted first. Then the boxes slide over the brackets, kind of like a tongue-and-groove effect. It's not like I have to hold the entire box with one hand while trying to drive the bolt in with the other.

Am I addressing what you suggested or am I off on a tangent?


 Yep !!!!I got-ya,, That makes it even easierheadbang.gifheadbang.gif Piece- a-cake



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Nearly a month later....


...Success! I ended up using the Tapcon screws, rather than the sleeve anchors. They worked perfectly.

Thanks to Geezer, BadRat, MelloYello and all you other guys who helped with this project.



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RE: Anchoring brackets in stone.


Looks great Swami, there's nothing like a good success story, is there?

 



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cool !! glad it worked out for you. dont you just love it when a plan comes together.

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One thing this project forced me to do is buy a hammer/drive drill combo. What a great piece of machinery. I'd tried, in the past, using a regular drive drill on masonry. Didn't work. Now I've got the tool needed for jobs like that.

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swami7774 wrote:

One thing this project forced me to do is buy a hammer/drive drill combo. What a great piece of machinery. I'd tried, in the past, using a regular drive drill on masonry. Didn't work. Now I've got the tool needed for jobs like that.


 Funny you should mention that, my best friend came by yesterday to get some tools and bolts to fix the door on the Church Bus that he had driven up here with a bunch of kiddos and during our, all too short, visit he mentioned that he had bought a hammer drill.  He said he didn't know how he had done without one for this long.  

Hmmmmmm, maybe I should check into them



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Both my sons are still in the construction business, and use De-Walt battery powered drills; screw guns.Etc  so I have a unlimited selection of toolsbiggrin 

Talking about the hammer drill ,, there is a small hammer drill type screw gun , that sinks 3 + inch screws into wood,, even oak,, it will break off the screw before it stops the drill,,

I happened to aquire a couple of thembiggrinbiggrin

Got a couple more somewhere,, the hammer drill is the dirty marked up one by the battery chargers,,

EDIT  and since this is now a TOOL thread,, I just bought a tubing roller,, I hope to start making some yard art junk. like plant hangers, yard birds Etc.. to palute folks yards other than mine


DSCN0432.JPGDSCN0431.JPGdrills.JPGDSCN0433.JPG



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Tuesday 5th of July 2011 12:05:38 PM

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Hey Rat, can you get those at "Dollar General?" biggrin



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Mello Yello wrote:

Hey Rat, can you get those at "Dollar General?" biggrin


 don't think so but might check the dollor store,wink, I just go to the back of Billy's truck,,wink its open 24/7..

 

 The ones I have are the ones that were replaced with new ones,, some needed brushes , new shafts Etc,, one I actually bought.hmm

He gets a new one on every job he starts,, Big time contractor that both my sons work for,, My oldest son Chris is the door division general superintendant,, Billy just turned out as journeyman 4 yr apprentice ship,, still a flunkie tho,biggrin

When we were in business,, the tool bill was fertrous,, ( that means expensive in case ya were wondering)  we always gathered up the company tools when a job was finished,. and had them returned to the warehouse and checked out to make sure they were in good working order,, and fixed the ones that needed fixin,, but still ALOT of them never made it back,,

 

nothing worse than having a no good tool .. just adds cost to the job



 



-- Edited by Bad Rat on Tuesday 5th of July 2011 01:03:46 PM

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