Home Handyman

Hummmn !! this one is gonna be a head scracher,, can you post up some measurements , like wall length. height, and thickness of the wall , If you want thes walls to close into themselves, the max height (open)would be about 88" am I correct? closed into the bar at 44" ?

could you draw up some simple drawings so we can vision the whole picture?

just a quick thought on raising and lowering the screen, could be a couple of electric screwjacks,

Oh Yeah!! Welcome to the Handyman show,,,,

A winch!  That might be easier than a garage door opener.  Can you get them with limit switches???

I thought about the left to right bifold, but that's just too easy.  I want something a little different.

DennisT wrote:

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I thought about the left to right bifold, but that's just too easy.  I want something a little different.

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 I can dig it - - - - sounds like some of the Hot Rodders I know !

I wonder if a small electric boat winch could be set up with a 12 volt to 110 adapter?  Most of them have a remote controlled hand held operating button and that wouldn't be hard to adapt into home decor at all.

I'm also wondering if a chain and sprocket drive line wouldn't be better than a cable drive ??

Be sure and keep us in the loop 'cause this is interesting

There's sure a lot of sites out there on retractable walls, room dividers and movie screens that you might get some ideas on.

Here's a picture of the area and my best work in the computers Paint program.

I know both sides of the wall will have to go the full height just to hide all the guts of whatever system I use for the wall to travel on.

here is a 120 v cheapie winch that would be way overrated for your application,, make the frame of the screen out of aluminum tubing, for weight reduction, and the rails Guide system like these would work

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?rlz=1T4GZBN_enUS464US464&q=electric+winches&gs_upl=0l0l0l1762lllllllllll0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8181714896046196364&sa=X&ei=NROKT4W4FaTYiAKrl5GeBA&ved=0CK8BEPMCMAE#

http://anaheimautomation.com/products/linearguide/linear-guide-products.php

DennisT wrote:

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You mean I gotta use math??!!!  That is some good info.

I probably will counterbalance, even if it can handle it.

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Well, you don't "gotta'" 

but if it doesn't work on paper first it almost certainly won't work in the real world.

Good luck with this thing - I'll be with you in spirit. . .

Recommended reading you can borrow through inter-library loan.

How Math can save your life

and

The arithmetic of life and death

Bad Rat wrote:

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I ain't that smart, I use the old trial and error system,,, OVER BUILD = SUCCESS

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 Yeah, I realize now that this plan is better suited for electrical circuits, where you can't see what's happening and have to take the word of your test instruments.

That's the trouble with things that are designed by computers; they're very sure of themselves so there is no safety factors so a single failure can cascade into a pretty big mess.  The suspended walkway at the Hyatt Regency was an example of this.

WT wrote:

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How much the panel weighs and how fast you want it moved determines the lift mech. hp.

1 hp = 550 ft-lbs/sec so a 55# panel raised 7' in 60 sec takes about 9w at 746 w/hp.

 

Use 35#/cu. ft. for wood density.

-- Edited by WT on Saturday 14th of April 2012 05:31:31 PM

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 I'm thinking about using metal studs to keep it lighter.  Anything good or bad about them?  I think the sheetrock will be the heaviest part.  Probably about 3 full sheets.

Well, maybe 2x4s are the way to go then.  Maybe I'll go 24" on center to save a couple pounds.

I just looked at your schematic and I have another thought, "if I may?"

Unless I am reading the drawing incorrectly, it looks like your wall is 12' in "width" AND if it is less than 12' then you won't have any butt joints (they are the ones that are formed by the 4' ends of the drywall) - - - - if you don't have any butt joints then you could even go with 2x2 studs and forfeit even MORE pounds.

Hope my thinking is correct on this !

meller

Bad Rat wrote:

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DennisT wrote:

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Well, maybe 2x4s are the way to go then.  Maybe I'll go 24" on center to save a couple pounds.

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 Wood studs are much heavier than metal, the reinforcement bar is simply for stability for the center of the wall, metal studs are pretty flimsy, through the center, especally if you are planning on raising it up with hardly any support on the bottom, the bar twists into the holes that are already punched into the studs, sllide through and twist into position,

3 1/2 " studs would probably be the way to go, since the bottom section will be part of the bar (Counter)

I'm working on a drawing, with my version of this,  we'll see how close I come

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 Can't wait to see your drawing.  I tried drawing something up, but even I didn't know what it looked like when I was done.  If I get some time, I want to sketch something up in our CAD system at work.

I had a drywall company in the Rocky Mrns but we "NEVER" messed with metal studs because there was more money in stick framing for the little independent - - - - - - metal stud jobs were for the Union Dudes

Mello Yello wrote:

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I had a drywall company in the Rocky Mrns but we "NEVER" messed with metal studs because there was more money in stick framing for the little independent - - - - - - metal stud jobs were for the Union Dudes

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http://www.racointeriors.com/

 http://www.4specs.com/s/10/10-2250.html

This is the system we used mostly, Raco Demountable , all walls could be demounted ( taked apart ) just in reverse of the way they went together, usually the sheetrock was covered with a vinyl ( wall paper type material) and attached to H shaped studs with clips,,all the electrical boxes were at the very bottom (within 4" of the floor) so when reuseing the panel, a plug could be cut and the rubber base covered the plug, so 95 % of all the material was reusable,

When it first came out in the 70'S it was considered as office furniture( because it was movable) so the building owners got a huge writeoff on the product,, (taxes)

We had the only machine for installing the material on the 2' or 4' wide sheetrock ( no beveled edges) north of San Francisco,

nearly every hi rise in Portland has Raco in it,, and we put it there,,,

WT wrote:

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Will there be any personnel safety issues if the wall keeps moving if it hits an obstruction?

The way around this is to have a circuit that senses motor current and shuts down if the current gets excessive. The parts for such a thing are $10 or $20 but it'll take a weekend to build/test/debug and you'll need at least some test equipment.

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Don't some garage door openers have that feature?

Dennis<<< couple of questions:::::: how wide will the top be that you intend to use as a bar when the wall is closed? that will need to be raised along with the wall, and matched up to the sophet hanging from the ceiling, unless you want the screen part to raise up from the middle of the bar top, then that will effect the width of the screen, you will have a counter top running through the middle of your game,

will the entire wall be used as the screen or just the raised portion? if the entire wall ( including the bottom sect) will be used,, there will be a offset on the bottom portion where the upper wall comes out of the lower section, will this effect the visuals of the projection,, I think it will,,

lots to consider here, about how the finished product will work and appear,

geezer69 wrote:

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im itchin to see this in action. its a good un. theres a bunch of ways of goin at. if you use wood you can pick through a few and use the light weight boards. they varry a lot in weight. one you pick up mite be 10 lbs. the next one 2 lbs. theres light lumber too. cedar,fir,white pine. jusat check at the lumber yard. you can find somethin. im sure the metal studs will work too with a little help. im thinkin you can build a switch if you cant find one handy.

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 Good point about the lumber weight.  That Raco tubing sounds good too.  I'll have to check that out.

My brother in law has an old garage door opener that he says is all mine, so I think I'll go that route.  I won't feel as bad destroying that thing instead of a brand new one.

I hope you guys don't think this is going to be done next week or anything.  Actually, what are you guys doing this weekend???    With work and everything else, I'm hoping just to have the walls framed in a month.  Then the fun will start.

DennisT wrote:

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Rat, this is the wall opposite the screen wall. I want the wall up when the room is used as a theatre, but down if there's a game on and have people over to watch. So this is just a plain wall. I figured the top plate (bar top) of the wall would over hang the wall about an inch on either side. It'll be centered in the rest of the bar top when down. I'll bevel the bottom edges so it centers itself when down.

Make sense???...

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 Yep!! it does make more sense now,, for some reason I was thinking you wanted this wall to be used as a video screen,, but really its just a Bar disguised as a wall,

so now I am wondering where exactly is this upper wall is suspose to retract too? fold up to the ceiling like a garage door does, Or retract down into the bar top?

Think about this, since you want a bar , how about building the bar the size you want, 44" high and 4" wide, by say 12ft long, with the bar top about say, 12-14-16-18 " wide,or whatever ,, and have the upper wall with the bar countertop attached to it   come up out of the center of the lower wall, with the bartop rising with the wall to match up to a overhead sophet hanging from the ceiling,and  the same size as the bar top, and latch onto the sophet to hold the weight of the raised wall and bar top,, m aking this rising wall , say 46 " high and the extra 2" will remaing in the lower wall to stabilize it and keep it from moving around in lower wall slot,,there by closing off the area behind the wall, does this make any sense at all to you?

to raise the wall, build a metal frame work  in that sophet  with pullys on each end with a cable running through the pullys down to each end of the bar ( that will rise out of the lower wall and pull the wall up with the use of a electric winch) the cables would be hidden in the overhead sophet, and when the wall is down , and being used as a bar, the cables will detach and go back into the sophet,   this is just about Clear as Mississippi Mud ain't it?

Mello Yello wrote:

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WT wrote:

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Will there be any personnel safety issues if the wall keeps moving if it hits an obstruction?

The way around this is to have a circuit that senses motor current and shuts down if the current gets excessive. The parts for such a thing are $10 or $20 but it'll take a weekend to build/test/debug and you'll need at least some test equipment.

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Don't some garage door openers have that feature?

 

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Yes, by photocell and by current drawn.

For fasteners and cabling the OP should use a safety factor of at least 4 - e.g., if the panel  weighs 50# and is supported by two cables, the breaking strength of each cable should be more than 50x4/2 = 100#.