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Post Info TOPIC: S.O.S. - my shop/storage wiring project


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S.O.S. - my shop/storage wiring project


OK, Gang and "RRUMBLER" - - - I'm knee deep in something I know nothing about but I have managed to google and get the rough in done.  Here are some pics showing what I've done and I have some questions.  Hope this is not too long and that I explain myself properly.

First pic is of the ruff-in showing the last outlet on that circuit

This shows the first outlet with a lead going to the junction/breaker? box and also the light switch on the far right and the ceiling fixture romex where the drop light is hanging.

This is what I bought and mounted for a connection location of the incoming power (from the house) and the leads to the light switch and the outlets.

This shows the corner of the shop at the extreme left and the back of the house and the back door.

Here is a pic from the inside of the house showing the back door on the left and the closet with the breaker box, hot water heater and back of outside wall.

Here is the inside of the breaker box

Here is the cover and labeling of the breakers.

I will have to bury any line that goes from the house to the shop but that's no problem - - just work and sweat.

I AM OPEN FOR ANY AND ALL IDEAS SUGGESTIONS AND EVEN RUDE COMMENTS.  biggrinbiggrin



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im not a lectrician but i do some anyway. i dont think you need that breaker in your buildin. im thinkin you could just come from that 30 amp breaker in your house to that first outlet then to the other outlets and light switch.i aint much good splainin things sometimes but i think of lectricity as water when im runnin wires.it flows from one box to the next. im sure ole rrumbler can get you straight on it.i do all my lectric work but i do have a dang good lectrician check me out before i heat everthin up.i still have trouble with them 2-3-4 way switches and ive ben shown several times. hahaha, my old head is purdy dang thick on some things. the puter bein one of em. hahaha

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WT


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You just having lights out there or lights and power tools?

I guess as minimum you should have a 20A circuit with #12 AWG copper, with a wire length such that you get less than a 3% or 5% voltage drop at the furthest outlet at the max current draw.

You gonna put in 240v or only 120v?

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all 120v and only one flourscent light and tools such as table saw, drill, miter saw, skill saw and etc - - - - the most load that would ever be on it would be the light, fan and one power tool at one time

can you have a breaker that is too large?



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As much as I would like to help you out with some "CORRECT INFROMATION" I choose to just read and learn on this , I have done a little electrical work,, but certainly not well versed on the particulars, I think Rumbler is your "Go TO Guy" on this one Amigo,,,

you are gonna have a nice work and storage space there when its done,, biggrin

 



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WT


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Mello Yello wrote:

can you have a breaker that is too large?


 Not if the wire is also large.  Don't forget to put a GFCI upstream of your shed.



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GFCI = Girl Friend Concealed Inside??

the Wiffy would never stand for it



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Sunday 8th of July 2012 07:18:14 PM

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Ok.  For starters, your rough in looks good - up to a point.  You don't need that breaker in there; in fact, I would recomend against it. If you can take it back and get your moolah back, I think you'll be money ahead.  Just get a deep (2 inch) two gang box and a blank cover; a "4-s or 5-s" box will work fine.  Bring the feed from the house into the box, tie all of the appropriate wires together with wire nuts, and it will be good.  If you use a metal box for the junction, bond it to the ground with a pigtail - just fasten a piece of bare copper or green inulated wire to the box with a screw, and connect it to the other ground wires in the same wire nut.  If that is a thirty amp breaker in the top position in that panel, and it is the one you intend to use, use #10 wire from there to the box in the shop.  A better solution would be to replace it with a 20 amp and use #12 wire all the way; .  In fact, it looks to me like all of the breakers in there are 30A, and they should not be.  Plug or combination plug/light circuits should be 20A and a minimum wire size of 12AWG, and circuits that have only lights on them should be 15A with a minimum wire size of 14AWG.  30A breakers should have a minimum wire size of 10AWG.  One thing for certain: if you trip a thirty with a lamp or a TV, you have a bigger problem than just a shorted plug or something like that.

As far as voltage drop goes, not much to worry about there: a good rule of thumb for general residential wiring is increase one wire size for every one hundred feet of circuit length - so, if you had a 20A circuit feeding something one hundred feet or more distant, you should use #10AWG in place of #12.

Other than these considerations, it looks like you're good; since your shed isn't permitted, and won't be inspected, I would not worry about it bein "code" legal, just safe.

And, speaking of safe, WT is right about GFIs, but I would use a GFI outlet in the first box, and feed through to the second one per the instrucftions in the GFI package, rather than going to the hassle of putting a GFI breaker in the panel.  Unless you plan on plugging a tool into the overhead outlet for the light, you don't need to worry about one there.

Just be careful, take your time, and ask if you hit a bump and can't sort it out; you'll be fine.



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Thanks Rrumbler, I understand everything except the GFCI - - - what is it?



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GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.  A GFCI outlet is an outlet with a built in circuit breaker that trips on extremely small amount of current to ground.  If you were standing on a wet surface or a metal ladder, and using a drill, if the drill shorted inside, or if you drilled into a live wire, the GFI would trip off before the current that you would feel became dangerous enough to hurt you.  They do not trip on overload, but a current to ground of less than 5 milliamps will trip one.  For remodel or additions, I prefer them to an "in panel GFI circuit breaker"; you don't have to get into the panel and mess around with existing stuff as an "in panel" requires an extra connection to the ground buss, and both hot and neutral must be connected to the breaker itself.  Putting in a GFI outlet is almost as simple as putting in a regular one, and the instructions in the package are very good in most cases, and they can be installed either as a stand alone GFI, or they can be installed in the first outlet in a circuit and wired to protect all of the outlets beyond them.  Very good safety device.  All kitchens, bathrooms, laundries, outdoor outlets, and shop/garage spaces should have them installed.

This would be my first choice:

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Dimmers-Switches-Outlets-Outlets-Receptacles/h_d1/N-5yc1vZc33a/R-203439056/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

 



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OK, now I understand and I will pick one up today when I go for supplies and I'll also pick up a junction box to replace that breaker box.

Thanks Rrum and WT

meller



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Monday 9th of July 2012 05:35:13 AM

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Mello Yello wrote:

GFCI = Girl Friend Concealed Inside??

the Wiffy would never stand for it



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Sunday 8th of July 2012 07:18:14 PM


 That Texassss heat must be gettin to ya,, date.gif

 



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Temp ain't all that bad but the humidity is brutal - - - - I picked up tin and the GF today and got them installed -  - except for the last run that has to be cut lengthwise and I'm too pooped to do anyting else this evening.  Getting some good showers tho so lawn mowing will be the order of business in the next couple of days.  Why didn't we buy a Condo on the Lake and rent a warehouse for my tools and toys?



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WT


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Test your setup as you go along, rather than waiting until the end and then flinching while you throw the breaker. Possibly it will save you having to dismantle some of it to isolate a problem.

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Was there a reason you used corrgorated sheeting for the ceiling? is the ceiling insulated? and if not.. how hot will the metal get? just askin???



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A couple of reasons for using the tin.  It is very reflective and provides a lot of additional light from the reflective properties, it is light and easy to put on the ceiling, I've used it in the past and I LIKE IT!  Don't think it will increase the heat inside at all or it hasn't in the past experiences anyhow.

I sure wish I could find that "truck" that ran over me last night because every joint and bone in my body aches (well, almost every bone anyhow) biggrin  Hopefully I can work some today and keep in kinks outa the old body.



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WT wrote:

Test your setup as you go along, rather than waiting until the end and then flinching while you throw the breaker. Possibly it will save you having to dismantle some of it to isolate a problem.


 Good point, I'm gonna try and find an electrician to do the power hook up from the house before I put any walls up.  However, I need to get a fixture mounted on the ceiling so he can make sure I didn't screw up too badly.



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My good neighbor across the street invited me over for coffee on his water front deck this morning and introduced me to a retired gentleman that was a licensed electrical contractor once.  After we sipped some java and tried (in vain) to change the course of world affairs he walked back to the house with me and I showed him what I planned on doing to get the shop wired.  He looked at the panel by the door and told me he could tie in there and then told me what to pick up and to call him when I was ready to hook it up and he would do it for me.

I'm having a hard time finding 10/3 with a bare ground wire that you can bury at home depot and lowes but I may be googling wrong so I'll have to swing by there and talk to one of their ?experts? - - - the retired feller said to just run it in PVC pipe and then bury it and it would work great.  Drilling the hole thru the back of the house is gonna be the hardest part because the hot water heater is in the way so I may have to drill it high and then drop down the outside wall.

WHOOPIE !



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If you are going to use conduit for the run from the house, just get the necessary amount of THHN in the correct size (#10), black, white, and green, and either stuffit as you put the conduit together, or pull it in after the conduit is fixed in place, my preferred procedure.  As I said earlier, trying to stuff romex into conduit is a real pain, and it is almost impossible to pull it in over any distance; and #10 romex is even more so because it is fatter, and stiffer.    Us old killywiggle chasers can be handy sometimes.



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Rrumbler wrote:

  Us old killywiggle chasers can be handy sometimes.


That's a big 10-4 - - - very handy to a N-n-n-n-n-novice for sure !

I'm still not sure if I want to get regular PVC or that flexible non-metalic conduit that is made for electrical wire???  Gotta pick some materials up pretty soon so I can get this thing finished and my tools outa the weather.  It has rained every day for almost a week and things are damp, to say the least.

I miss our old place more and more every day - - - OH WELL no



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Use PVC electrical conduit, not sprinkler pipe, or flex weathertite - it's not made for that use.  Electrical conduit has a coupling swaged on one end, and a dull finish; you do use regular couplings for it, though when you add in "sweeps", also called elbows - they are a wide curve rather than the tight 90 that is normal for water pipe.  Ask your friend if he has any suggestions, since he's the one going to do the hook up; he may have a trick or two up hi sleeve that I am not considering, or some local reg that I may not be privy to.  Since I can't see this up close and personal, I may be missing something pertinent.



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PIcked up 30' of 1" conduit and 3 "sweeps" plus a 4 bulb fixture and 50' of 10/3 today and my grandson is coming over tomorrow evening and spending the night so hopefully we can get the stuff buried and the light hung before I have to take him home Saturday.



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Do you "HAVE TO" glue all of the joints of the conduit or can you get by with a good tight fit?

Drilling a hole thru the back outside wall from the closet where the panel is has me a little concerned because I have no way of knowing exactly what is in that wall - - - - I do know that there is a back porch light above the area where the hole will be and that concerns me a little but what are the chances of hitting that line????  I hate flipping a coin hahahahaha no



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No, you don't have to glue it, but it helps to keep the conduit from coming apart while you're rassling it into position.  As for the hole, use a spade bit or hole saw and go at it easy, one layer at a time, through the siding, then the sheathing, and take a looksee at each one; when you get into the stud cell, you can see if there is anything that need pokin' around.  Or, you could go at it from the inside the same way, or cut a patch out inside and mud it back in after you're done.



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Well, my grandson got most of the ditch dug yesterday afternoon and most of it was hard black gumbo.  He is a worker for sure and I don't think I could have dug that dig by myself.  I do pretty good with most jobs until I have to beenn over and then also strain - - - - I can feel the old back warning me to stop before it makes me stop so I STOP.

We should have the wire in the conduit and covered up by noon today - - I hope I hope I hope and then some minor Sherry stuff before we have to take him home. 

He went walking thru the subdivision yesterday afternoon and met some teenage gals that were visiting their grandparents and they invited him to go hang out and to a BBQ today but we told him no on the hanging out after dark since we don't know them or anything about them.  Don't know about the BBQ yet but we have a line to bury.  It's almost 6am and he's still asleep on the couch but I'm gonna wake him in 30 minutes cause "we're burnin' daylight" hahahaha

gonna be a hot one today also

meller



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WOO HOO










-- Edited by Mello Yello on Saturday 14th of July 2012 10:30:56 AM

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WT


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That kid's already getting shoulder muscles. . .

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