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Post Info TOPIC: Meller's Plumbing Questions ?


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Meller's Plumbing Questions ?


My son has decided to do his own rough in plumbing and has been asking me some questions that I don't really know the answer to and that's NOT VERY HARD TO DO THESE DAYS !

QUESTIONS:

Does every drain in the house have to have it's separate vent pipe and does it have to vent outside?  Can it vent into the attic?  Can you tie several together with just one vent?  I'll probably do some googling also but I did want to throw this out for Y'all consideration this morning.

I'm sure I'll have more Questions later but this is all for now.

TA, meller



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No easy answer to any of those. With the exception of, I'm 99% sure it has to go outside with the one exception listed below.

Vents can be tied together, but there are limits on pipe size and distances. No doubt different in every state.

Don't forget, if you have one or two or three places that a vent is required, but it's going to be one of those real pain in the butt places to vent, there are, and forgive me for forgetting the exact term, those doo hickey's that are legal vents but don't go anywhere. Basically a one way valve that goes where a vent would. Air can go in to break the suction, but not out to gas the house. There are several in my house. Don't cost that much either, probably cheaper than 20' of pipe +connections for those problem areas. Of course, local codes may limit them, or not allow them, or, or, or, or, or, or....

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Farwell, Michigan

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AAV Air Admittance Valve

 

Plumbers don't seem to like them, and sight various reasons why.   But then, since using one of them instead of running a full vent stack would cut his job time to a fraction, why would they want to use them?



-- Edited by thirdroc17 on Wednesday 18th of December 2013 11:11:40 AM

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Dale,

Farwell, Michigan

Wheel Horse:
C-Horse (part C-141, part Commando 800)
C-101SS


Kubota BX-2670 w/50" blower & 60" mower



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First thing you need to know is what issue or version of code the county or city is using.  The codes are often updated, or re-written every four years or so, and some places adopt one and then don't re-adopt as the codes are revised, soit is imperative to be on the right page so you don't get crosswise with the inspectors.  Go to the appropriate "authority" and find out what codes they are currently using, and go from there.

Now, the basics: not considering special circumstances like island sinks and cathedral ceilings, every "tree" must have it's own vent that exits above the roof surface at least a foot, or sometimes more.  So, in a simple bathroom, for example, there should be a 1-1/2" vent from the sink, and the tub/shower, tying into a 2" vent from the toilet between 3 and 4' above the floor level, and extending up through the roof.

 

plumbing-basics-ga-1.jpg

 

Anything beyond this requires more intensive knowledge and study.  My last code class on plumbing was in '97, and I am sure things have changed some since then.



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Thanks Y'all, I'll be passing these and "ANY OTHER COMMENTS" along to Bo and I know he appreciates it also.

I sure like Dale's mention of the AAVs and I'll get him to check the codes as Y'all have mentioned.

L8tr,
Em

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The only place I would use an AAV is on a rehab/remodel where the actual DWV vent line(s) is hidden in the the framing. The local code calls out the county/town requirements and these along with the wiring are probably an inspection point (they are in my town) before 'rocking. Speaking of AAV's, I added one recently to a cellar drain that was slow. It isn't any longer!



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Dave W (Irelands Child/IC2)

Quando omni flunkus, moritati (When all else fails, play dead - R Green)



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The bathtub in that picture above is not vented. The toilet when flushed could draw the water out of the tub trap...Around here, that would not pass....

The main stack MUST be vented up through the roof to the outside

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Unless my one good eye is deceiving me, it looks like that tub is vented with the black cross over pipe at the front of the drawing. ??????????????????????????

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Mello Yello wrote:

Unless my one good eye is deceiving me, it looks like that tub is vented with the black cross over pipe at the front of the drawing. ??????????????????????????


 The pipes in black are the drain pipes.....It may be up to code as is, as the tub drain is just a few feet from the sink vent....Only reason I know this, is that I had this issue when we renovated our old house about 20 years ago. The inspector gave us a hard time because the tub drain was not vented and was slightly over 5ft from the vented sink.....Luckily we didnt have to tear out walls, his tape measure grew a few inches somehow.....lol

Like said above, different areas have different codes



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So are you saying that the tub in the pic is "not" vented? I'm confused, Harry ?????

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The pipe that sure looks like it would be vent pipe for the tub, is already serving duty as a drain pipe from the sink. Can't do double duty in most cases.

Did I get it right?????

I'm no professional plumber, but I've watched many a home improvement shows. Learned a lot just from Tool Time alone!!!



-- Edited by thirdroc17 on Thursday 19th of December 2013 10:18:21 AM

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Dale,

Farwell, Michigan

Wheel Horse:
C-Horse (part C-141, part Commando 800)
C-101SS


Kubota BX-2670 w/50" blower & 60" mower



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Hmmmm, good point, maybe ?just maybe? they are allowing the lavatory vent to also vent the tub since it's ALL tied together - - - - interesting layout anyhow.

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You're right, Poncho.  The horizontal vent (grey pipe) should run on across behind the sink, and drop down to vent the tub drain just downstream of the trap.  This illustration show what is called a "wet vent" for the tub, and that is to be avoided in almost all cases.



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OK, now that I'm completely confused, I need to ask some questions. First let's see if I can ask them to where Y'all understand what I'm asking. Rrumbler mentioned a wet vent so ?I'm assuming? that is a vent pipe that rises off of the drain line where the water is being disposed, as opposed to one that is above the wet pipe before the p-trap????
Wouldn't the pipe that is labeled "overflow" at the bathtub be a good vent source, if it continued up and either ouver to the other "dry" vents or out the roof????? What would be the difference between an overflow and a vent pipe??

"Novice minds would like to know????????????????????????????????????????"

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The overflow is on the wrong side of the trap.

 

The purpose of a vent is to prevent a pipe full of draining/flowing water from siphoning the water out of the trap.  It does this by allowing air in downstream of the trap, but can't be too far downstream, or there is still a possibility of the water being sucked out of the trap.



-- Edited by thirdroc17 on Thursday 19th of December 2013 08:58:33 PM

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Dale,

Farwell, Michigan

Wheel Horse:
C-Horse (part C-141, part Commando 800)
C-101SS


Kubota BX-2670 w/50" blower & 60" mower



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Well, in the never ending changing world of Home Construction, I think that Bo has decided to sub his ruff in plumbing out to a licensed plumber and then do some land clearing for some people who are wanting it done to help pay the plumbing cost. I really like that idea, if he sticks with it.



-- Edited by Mello Yello on Saturday 21st of December 2013 03:39:38 PM

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As much as I am all for doing things for one's self if possible, there are times to call in the experts.  All of us, having been "experts" of one sort or another, should understand what I am saying.  I think this is a wise move on Bo's part.



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The old adage of, "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself." really doesn't apply if you're doing something you don't know how to do.

I've done a lot of things I didn't know how to do when I started, and eventually they worked, but they sure as hell weren't "done right." Just functioned in the end. Of course, the second time around, I could come closer to "doing it right", but "right"????

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Dale,

Farwell, Michigan

Wheel Horse:
C-Horse (part C-141, part Commando 800)
C-101SS


Kubota BX-2670 w/50" blower & 60" mower

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